Anti roll bar improvements front.
GT4 165, 185, 205

I decided to use a very common race design ARB set-up.

I have personally found these type of units work very well, both for track and road use, the one draw back is, I would advise the fitment of this type of ARB to be used in conjunction with coil over suspension, as the rate of travel has to be matched to the length of arms etc.

The GT4 has a U shaped bend in the middle of the front anti roll bar; this design causes great concern to me.
Reason quite simply, the function of the roll bar would be reduced due to the design; this u section would cause delay, further absorption off any quick changes of load, not what you need when it comes to anti roll bars.

I have decided to go about making a bladed type for the GT4 fitment. If any one knows a source for this type of ARB for the Celica gt4 fitment, please let me know.

The set-up would consist of a single piece round bar, either solid or hollow depending on rates required, with 2 aluminium mounts, either Polly or ptfe lined for the stock fixing points on chassis.

The attachment of flat bar (the blade) will be used with a machined end to fit the keyways either end of the straight bar, a simple clamp bolt & Allen key will be used to lock the ends.

Adjustment would be made, by loosening the clamp bolt, and by turning the blade around, when the blade is loaded across the flat side its resistance is low, when the blade is rotated round to the edge for load, its resistance is high, a simple task, with very affective results, accurate set-up can be achieved using this design.

This design of the blade is not mine it’s copied from units I have worked on, but the design of the brackets to suite the Gt4 are off my own design.

The fitment of this unit only requires a small amount of modification to the position of the exhaust system section etc.

The fitment of raising blocks can be used for both the support for the double width ARB mount and the front suspension arm rear bush mount, thus improving the static castor.

A similar design to the front will be used on the rear.

to date i have all the materials for the front and rear to be constructed.
Once i have the adjustable inserts i will start the fittment, hopefully in the next week or so.


Theses type of ARB's are not like any other type, these provide a very high level of control, as the can be set true on rating.

Any suggestions would be great.

Cheers

Jon

Jon, this type of ARB is quite common on race cars as you probably know although I don't think I've seen it on a road car. I'm not sure if you are aware but the ST185 rear ARB has clearance problems on an ST205. Its OK on the soft and mid setting but on the hard setting it fouls the suspension (or bodywork) and makes an annoying knocking sound. This is generally hardly noticeable on the road but is quite distracting on track.

The problem is that the bar doesnt come with the correct bent 'ends' like the OEM bar. It may be possible to make up a new set of drop links to obtain the clearance but if you are looking at a blade setup then I'd be keen to see how you get on. If not, a few of us here were thinking of getting a new ARB designed from scratch that would fit properly.

Cheers,

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

The fitment on the rear does not follow the original placement.

they sit lower down, thus not causing clearance issues nearer to the low axle section, so the straight bar can connect to the each side of the arm, not the suspension leg..


I have seen loads of cars fitted with them both for modified road and race rally.
Every 1 i have spoken to have rated them big style.

I have experience with ebac and others types, but nothing comes close to the bladed type.

If you go ahead with this I think you would have a lot of interest from us, the usual suspects

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

Just for the record - The ST185 and St205 stock rear ARB's are the same in design. No noticeable difference. The only difference I coudl detect was one was about 1mm greater diameter, Thsi however I put down to the build up of rust on one ARB! I have both here for reference.

_________________
JP
GT4DC Treasurer

Grey St185 RC
Silver BMW E46 M3
Multicolour yawn Honda VFR400
Silver Honda Civic Type-R

Jon - have a look at our site.

The 185 WRC car used a flat bladed style front ARB that was adjustable via an in car "handbrake" that was able to twist the bar to increase the amount of Anti-roll.

I doubt the TTE men will sell this cheaply though!

This revolved around a twistable joint placed at the corner of the ARB. I'm sure this could be replicated, but to be honest at present with some stiff springs I am not finding the limit of the current setup...yet

_________________
Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
_______________________________________
Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement

Good point Kris, with the roll stiffness of your TEIN and even my TRD/KYB setup the ARB is less critical but it would be a nice touch to have a blade bar

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

That has to be for boasting rights tho surely . . . do we/will we ever really reach the limits where this will be required? (ahem thats the collective we )

_________________
Loosey
Loosey@gt4dc.co.uk
Storm Blue JDM ST205
Super White JDM ST205
http://www.gtfours.co.uk

Some people are like a Slinky .. Not really good for anything, but they make you smile when you shove them down the stairs!

Don - yes I agree, (with my limited suspension knowledge).

I suppose that any setup can improved upon, but the returns I would imagine would be diminishing?

I still yet have to fully understand the ARB, but I would've thought it's effects would be less noticeable with stiffer springs?

_________________
Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
_______________________________________
Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement

I have found out over time:

Having really hard suspension to reduce body roll is counter productive, as we all know it’s all down to a balance that give a good handling car.

The use of the ARB allows a better compromise for spring rate to grip factor.

Sometimes going down on the springs, and running more ARB allows a faster lap time, well that’s what I found out any way.

What’s good for the goose is not necessary good for the gander.

I will have some pictures shortly of the build.

As for cost, well they could be only as little more than white line.

I only go for mods that give gain, i am not into bling, just power and control.

Hi Jon,

I might well be interested in adjustable front and rear bars

It's only an inkling but none the less I suspect that the 4 might be one of those cars which likes more ARB less spring

I have found that although the firm rear ARB is good I still have to crank up the damping significantly to get a good level of roll control. This in turn is making the car a little skittish on bumpier tracks. Plus the car still doesn't really like quick left/right (or vice versa) combos and I feel this is partially down to the reliance on the shocks to control some of the body roll (although I'm well aware that a lard arse car like mine is never going to be a flick of the wrist job LOL)



Although if they happen to be shiny too there's no complaints right LOL

Seconded ..... I'm sure Loosey will agree with that as well

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

For sure

Interesting comments about the spring rates vs arb.

It seems pretty "popular" just to uprate the rear ARB on the 205, I wonder if there are gains to be had by going a little madder on the rear and also beefing up the front as well?

Didn't I see a while ago that Cusco make a front ARB for the 205? WOnder what diameter bar they run? The stock 205 front bar seems pretty thin and unsubstantial to me!

_________________
Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
_______________________________________
Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement

My car has a Tannabe 20 mm front ARB and KYB shocks with TRD springs all round. All this I found after I had bought it the previous owner said it was standard ,obviously this was done in Japan seems to work ok I have not pushed it past the limit yet

_________________
TERRY

94 Silver ST205 JDM 280bhp
gone but not forgotten