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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:12 am 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 2:33 pm
Posts: 401
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Car Model: ST185
Time to fix up those lines. Released the hardlines from the various brackets and covers and reviewed the position of the lines.
Note, this pic is to see if that utility hole was covered by the lines, and unfortunately it was. Original plan was to put quick release plug in that position, but with hardlines going over it, the use of that utlity hole for anything was a no go.
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Fuel line was pretty creased from over bending - oops on my part. Figured out what the factory routing of the line was relative to the fuel filter.
original plan was to change fuel filter to a smaller unit and tuck it out of the way, but after looking at options, it was easier to replace filter and reuse the factory bracket for mounting. I may still change the mounting as required.
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this is the oops - no good for fuel, need to fix
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using tube cutter, i cut back the pipe
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using a flexible hose will save me :) Also allows fuel filter to be located elsewhere as requried.
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cut line needs some flaring so pipe doesn't pop off.
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Jonno used to pop over regularly to help/laugh. His subaru legacy acting as a tripod coming off the driveway.
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You wondering why people roll their inner guards?
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So pretty..
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time to reinstall the steering rack. Mounted column internally and put a Nardi steering wheel on.
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Chucked the rack on to the crawler and mounted.
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time to test fit an engine. Engine sits on frame between crane legs. Rolling frame design works a treat. Mount old bumper bar to left car car over the engine.
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Start to slowly move engine under the car.
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Richard getting a bit of a workout pushing the engine into place.
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Check the location of engine relative to the body before lowering.
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Slowly lower car over the engine, adjust the engine location to ensure nothing snags or gets hung up. Engine needs to be slowly rolled forward to ensure the PS pump and gerbox position selector doesn't snag on the A-arms as the car is lowered down.
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Holding the car up mere centimetres off the ground while moving the engine around - so close..
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Engine relative to the side mounts wasn't right. Tilted the car up a little to be able install the drivers side mount
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You can see how close the mount is here. go a little this way, that way, shake it around a little..
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time to move the engine up a little to get the mount into position.
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And engine finally sitting in the engine bay, at least on the side mounts.
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Wheel studs again. Must have takent his picture for some reason. stud, 2nd from left was cut too short. ended up having to buy another stud to cut down btw
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And that was February 2012

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:43 am 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 2:33 pm
Posts: 401
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Car Model: ST185
March 2012

So with the engine mounted, it was time to look at the front and rear engine inserts from SpeedSource.
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As you can see, the rear mount hole is offset.
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Front inserts have the hole in the centre so it was an easy decision to put them straight in to the front mount bracket. Smear with lube
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Lube the pin as well
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Also got these solid bushes from SpeedSource as well. Front comparison
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Rear comparison
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Replacement bolts supplied as well
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To mount the subframe, I had to get the car on stands. Easiest thing is to lift the car with the crane
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After some mucking about trying to get the subframe in, I figured that you have to tilt the engine forward. Easiest way I found with the engine hanging on the side mounts, was to push the driveshaft yoke up with my hand from underneath. The engine has to sit in a more upright position so I jury jigged a tie down to tilt the engine forward.
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Test fit the bracket in place. The mount is offset to centre of the gearbox bracket so the inserts only fit in one way.
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And a test fit of the insert lines up with the bracket.
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Insert in
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To orientate the rear offset insert with the bracket, I put half the insert with the centre pin in place. This allowed me to move the insert by hand to line up the mount and the rear bracket
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Subframe mounts in, rear bush bolted in.
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Slightly out of order, but I took the insert apart to demonstrate the technique
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Due to the tight fit of the pin inside the insert, you need to push the pin out. I used a large bolt and a hammer
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Subframe bushes are placed between the body and subframe. Generally a lot of mucking about to get it all lined up.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:45 am 
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Group N

Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 2:33 pm
Posts: 401
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Car Model: ST185
Sometimes I lose things in the garage, then find them again. Bearing accidently pushed off the bench
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There you are :)
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Hmm HKS
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Shiny HKS Silent Hi Power Exhaust
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Machine tig welding on the resonator
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Hangers mig welded on
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Pipe mig welded on
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Flange mig welded on
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Machine bender marks on the outside of the bend
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JASMA approved
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Wrapped some carpet around the resonator to protect while I installed. Tip, easier to drop the subframe slightly to help get the pipe over the subframe.
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Have to line up the resonator bracket with the bracket on the body
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And installed. What surprised me was how low the resonator hung down from the heatshield. If I build an exhaust system, I'll be mounting the resonator higher to prevent dragging the resonator on speed bumps
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Accessories provided with the exhaust system
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A bit of lube before putting the rubber hanger bushes on
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Build quality of the HKS system is okay. Pipe doesn't sit flush with the flange. Some peneration of the weld into the pipe
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The pipe sits very close to the subframe reinforcement bracket
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I help my friends out on occasion. Richard's engine mount on his honda was broken, time to replace.
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Picked up a 2nd hand manifold with gen 3S mounting flange. A HKS pod filter adapter came with the manifold.
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Design is a 4 into 1. You have probably seen this design on 4AGE or 4G63 applications. Driven Performance in NZ sell this unit in stainless. Schedule 40 black pipe so built strong.
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Pipes are not elongated to match the ports.
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Merge collector is not the greatest, but taking into account the age of the manifold, we have come along way in terms of our thinking regarding exhaust gas velocity and direction.
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Merge is pretty reasonable on the inside
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Time to remove the studs. Cleaned them up a bit before getting some nuts on them for removal
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Double nut trick works to remove the stud
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Manifold mounted. Some thoughts about this manifold.

Location: Manifold locates turbo to centre of the engine. Factory position is offset to allow more room for the dump pipe relative to the AC pump. Have to also take into consideration the location of the water pump inlet from the radiator.
Wastegate outlet: the outlet being on the gearbox side of the engine is not optimal. It means either routing the WG piping between the block and turbo, or routing the pipe between radiator and turbo. In NZ, it is a requirement to have exhaust gases recirculated back into the exhaust sytem. This does means that the WG piping has to go either front or rear of the turbo. Front side routing may interfere with fans, rear side routing may interefere with oil feed to turbo and/or the oil return back to the sump.

So I have a manifold that doesn't provide optimal position of the turbo, at least for the Holset HX35 I plan to use. Hmm
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Next fun part. To mount a nut to this stuf is almost impossible. Also can't use a ratchet or torque wrench and can only use a spanner..
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Test fit of the Holset with an adapter on the factory manifold. Turbo position allows for better routing of the dump pipe.
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But problem with the adapter. Pushes the turbo out too far (or I have very large turbo..) and would interfere with the radiator. I did consider relocation of the radiator under the support panel, or in front of the panel (which may interfere with the radiator latch vertical support)
Main issue is that the factory twin scroll exhaust housing is rather large. Research showed that while the 12cm housing would be good for response, I'd still have to weld the WG flap shut and use an external wastegate for more optimal control as the factory wastegate actuator is between 17 and 23psi. A bit much for me at this stage.
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Second issue, compressor housing hits the gearbox and would prevent the clutch release actuator from being mounted. Repositioning the actuator still wouldn't prevent the compressor housing hitting the box
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Friends use my garage. This time it is to fix an exhaust leak. Leigh scavanged some metal from my scrap pile and got to work
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clean up metal before welding
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Tig time!
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While Leigh fixed his exhaust, I installed the bearing that I found. Trick: tap the seal in with the handle side of a screwdriver, moving slowly around the seal to gradually put it in. Works a treat every time.
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Leigh still at work..
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Using the aftermarket manifold, the holset didn't fit on to the head. as it interfered with the oil cooler. I borrowed Nick's exhaust housing from his HX40. Firstly, test fit to ensure no intereference with the oil cooler - check
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checking the position of the turbo and if it would interfere with the gearbox and clutch fork actuator - seems like it would fit
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And plenty of room for the compressor housing.
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Side trip - got to visit a local industrial park and what used to be our national industrial research labs. Interesting note, they had a wind tunnel which I was curious about as Jonno was exploring downforce for his car due to our interest in Time Attack. Little did I know that the wind tunnel was for scale models.
Here are some of the models they used to test wind effects in city scenarios.
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To get the correct velocity of the wind, the tunnel is a long straight which feeds air into a little control room where they setup the models for testing. Testing costs were $1200 a day.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:29 am 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 2:33 pm
Posts: 401
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Car Model: ST185
An emotionally charged day to say the least.

To start off with, I caught up with the panel beater I had been dealing with and he's all casual about borrowing a trailer so I can go pick up my car.
The trailer being borrowed, he hadn't even arranged with the owner, so that wasn't a very good scenario if issues had arisen out of that.

Drive up to the panel shop where the car is being held and the shop owner says he won't release my car unless I pay $1600 for work done on the car. I'm like *bleep*, excuse me? My panel beater hasn't informed me of any of this. It seems like my panel beater has sub-contracted out the work to this panel shop and not informed me.

Suffice to say I'm am *bleep* off with the guy I have been dealing with from the start. I was up front about constant communication and I set expectations. Granted, there have been delays in providing parts or doing some slight things different, but it has been 8 long months from the start of this and it has been a constant chase to get *bleep* done. I've offered money and assistance to push things along and all I got was excuses and the push off. Seriously, when someone is offering money, why not fucking take it and get the work done.. I don't get it?!

So now I'm left with a bill for what knows has been done. I don't even know if my panel beater or some apprentice did the bloody car painting or not!

Much to sort out including what has (or hasn't) been paid to the panel shop, what deal my panel beater had with the panel shop and what I need to do to get my car finished.

Today is not a good day. From here on in, I'm only dealing with the panel shop to get the car done as fast as possible. The panel beater isn't getting another damn cent out of me as I've already ponied up $2500..

SO FUCKING OVER MODIFYING CARS - should never have got to the point of me trying to sort *bleep* out. Worst decision ever to do a cash job and I only went this way because of the verbal guarentees and my thinking at the time that I was helping someone who needed the money.. obviously they need money, but aren't willing to work get the money.. and I'm not stingy when I want *bleep* done to a good quality level..

*angry, frustrated, disappointed and emotional drained Dave..

why fucking bother anymore................... gah!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:29 am 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 2:33 pm
Posts: 401
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Car Model: ST185
On a lighter note, I have started into the guard moulding process. The gelcoat and first layers of fibreglass have been applied. Now it is building up the layers to gain strength in the mould, a long with some well placed mdf to minimise flex in the mould, then build out the split mould pieces. From there, repair the moulds as necessary, then start on the guards themselves. Plenty of photos, no time or want to upload due to sorting paint *bleep* out and the fact that I need to spend time building the moulds and getting the guards made so I can send them to be cleaned up and painted.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:14 am
Posts: 3265
Location: Camberley, Surrey
Car Model: ST205
Sorry to hear of your woes.

That is a real shame that they were not honest about who was actually doing the work. :(

Hopefully you can get things sorted out and move forward with the project.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 2:33 pm
Posts: 401
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Car Model: ST185
Things will get sorted. I get hyper rational and I have already have 'fixed' the problem in my head.
I may have to buy my way out of this to avoid wasting more time. Money isn't the issue at the end of the day, dealing with someone who constantly makes excuses and screws me around is.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 2:33 pm
Posts: 401
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Car Model: ST185
In 10 minutes, the panel shop answered all my questions and I confirmed that I will be dealing with them direct going forward. That was easy wasn't it?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:58 pm 
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Group N

Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 2:33 pm
Posts: 401
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Car Model: ST185
so..

1) My panel beater sub-contracted the painting out to another panel shop
2) Bonnet and bumpers still haven’t been painted as they are apparently waiting on me for the guards
3) Rear guards still haven’t been rolled
4) $1600 was the deal between panel beater and shop. Nothing has been paid thus far, so I will take over that contract. May cost another $400 for the guard rolling as it may break the paint – should have been done in prep (sigh)

Next steps
1) work with panel shop only going forward
2) have words with the ‘panel beater’
3) get the car finished.
Will be a waste of time trying to deal with the panel beater any further. I’d rather deal direct and pay money (it’s on the panel shops books btw, not a cash job) and get stuff done rather than waste any further time.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 2:33 pm
Posts: 401
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Car Model: ST185
Inspected car and parts last night at panel shop and made agreements that the job goes through me going forward.
Various items have been prepped for paint, but some items still need prep work.
Talked with the manager about rolling the guards as they hadn't been before paint, meaning that if the guards are rolled, there is a high likelihood of the paint racking at the edge of the arch. Should have been done in prep, like I had previously asked of the panel beater, but a screw up that has to be most likely be fixed by feathering it in... #$%^

Anyway actions to be taken going forward. I need to get the guards done so they can do they painting all in one hit. Manager to get back to me regarding options on the guard rolling.

Talked with the panel beater. Found him lying on his couch watching tv and drinking a beer. Didn't even bother to get up to talk.
I told him that I didn't get my car because of the cash demand and that as a result I was going to use the panel shop going forward. Initially he said 'less work for me then' and then he made motions to control his 'deal', that he'll 'sort it out', 'they should have done the work' and 'I was just giving them some work to help them out'. When I told him it had been 8 months, he was 'man, has it been that long, time flies fast when you're busy aye'.. obviously not doing my work.

No mention of any additional money except for what he agreed with the panel shop. Before I left, I told him to drop anything he has of mine at my friend's place. Rather an amicable break of the working relationship, even if his comments just left me thinking 'why did I even bother'.

Did more fibreglassing last night.. tired as a result as I didn't get home till midnight. That's my life, how's everyone else going?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:06 am
Posts: 4743
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
This doesn't sound good Dave. If I understand the situation correctly you are still dealing with the same people who have mucked you around? I must admit I'd have been tempted to draw a line under the arrangements and find someone else.

With my project I have networked to try and find people who do quality work but also whom I can develop a rapport with. I can't be on-site all the time so this is very important. For the last few years I've had a round trip of 3 to 4 hours every other week to keep an eye on progress, deliver parts, discuss design and occasionally roll up my own sleeves to do some real work!

Anyway, I hope your revised modus operandi works out OK and your project manages to move forward.

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1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:55 am 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 2:33 pm
Posts: 401
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Car Model: ST185
I am dealing directly with the shop that the painting was outsourced to, instead of dealing with a middle man who told them vague instructions and didn't follow up with anything. They wont release the car unless they are paid the full $1600, so I may as well get them to finish the job as there are still outstanding parts to paint.

I thought I had established a working relationship with a panel beater who had the skills to do the quality work I was expecting. Unfortunately this did not turn out to be the case.

Going forward as I work with the panel shop where the car is currently stored, I will manage progress and communications. At least the panel shop manager picks up the phone, not like the other guy.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:44 pm 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
That doesn't sound too bad then. If they answer the phone and you can talk then at least you have an ongoing dialogue to discuss any issues that arise. I never cease to be amazed when I find people who are reluctant to communicate. When I had the Formula Ford restored last year it was like pulling teeth to get progress reports and any detail. The guy promised lots of photos and I hardly got any but the parts breakdown was good. Contrasts with the track toy project where I have loads of pics but probably not as much technical detail on the parts specs as I'd like. I did speak about this at the start of the project and the builder was reluctant to document the detail. He ended up summarising parts under a few main headings plus labour on the invoices. I often wonder if this is partly deliberate so the engine builders, chassis constructors, etc. don't lose their IPR. Most of us building these project cars have a fair degree of accumulated engineering knowledge so it would be nice if the pro's reciprocated with a similar level of detail ......mini-rant over! :twisted: :mrgreen:

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GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 2:33 pm
Posts: 401
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Car Model: ST185
In response to the documentation of a build, the old adage of time is money, is a common reason. While we are happy to take the time to whip out the camera and get some photos, the workshops are on the clock, normally on a fixed budget. Not much time to take photos, and there is always the pressing need to push through the job and then get the next job in.

As for IP, yes, I can understand the need to keep things close as it may affect the wallet if you are providing ideas and techniques to competing workshops and to the owner who may be reluctant to return repeat work. And while they can wield a spanner, they may not be able to wield a camera. The number of professional workshop photos is normally a case of pro's or external parties coming into the workshops to document builds, either as documentation for the owner, or as a showcase for the shop. You'd think advertising their skills and facilities would be a good thing.. but hey, I'm not a workshop owner.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 2:33 pm
Posts: 401
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Car Model: ST185
Because I haven't updated much good stuff lately, I'd thought I'd quickly post some photos taken off my phone. Lots of photos on the main camera so full explanations later.

Guard moulding - 90% prep, 10% actually doing. I'm making multi-piece moulds. Guard is mounted on the RC for fibreglassing to ensure minimal warping of the mould. If I did it on a workbench, then the fear is the guard would flex and not be in a natural mounting position. Alternatively was to copy the mounting points and make a jig so I could make the mould in the horizontal position, but I just sucked it up and got on with the job with the guard on the car.

Note the flanges. Multiple pieces, multiple curvatures. Took a long long time to measure and cut to fit/curve. Plastic is hot glued to the rear of the edge on to tape. While it is easy to force a curve with the corflute plastic signboard, the aim was to reduce the tension in the curve as it may release during gelcoat/fibreglass. Put pressure on it and the hot glue/board might have popped off mid glassing.

Also needed to think about how the multi-piece mould would assemble together. Issues with mechanical lock and not being able to release once the mould and copy is made.

And finally, I needed to push this job through as a) panel beater is waiting so they can paint a bunch of parts all at once, b) cracks were appearing in the body filler (grr). Where the car is placed is facing the garage door. The door becomes very hot as it is West facing and captures the afternoon sun and the subsequent handling of the guards while building the flanges and heat made the guards very fragile. With the cracks appearing, I determined that this was a one shot job, therefore I had to make the moulds on the first hit. There will be no going back to try again later. All prep work was done with this in mind.
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Once the flanges are glued to the guard, the next step is sealing the flange to the guard. I used modelling clay to create a seal. Note, every edge needs to be done and the tidier you do it, the better the end result. Probably removed fingerprint on index finger as I smoothed out the clay transition between the guard edge and the flange. I also used a wooden coffee stirrer stick to make initial transition and pack the clay into tight spots.
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5-6 layers of release wax applied, then 3-4 light coats of PVA release agent. Location domes added to the flanges on the multi piece flanges.
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A thick layer of tooling gelcoat applied. Main issue I had here was that I didn't mix the gelcoat thoroughly enough. When I applied the polyester resin later, there were some slight wrinkles in the gelcoat as the resin catalysed the non-cured gelcoat. Majority of the shape was good, so I will fix up the bad spots later.
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Messy fun time. I use 450gm chopped strand matt and I sometimes pull a piece into two halves to create 225gm matt layers for hard curves and initial lay up.
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Each guard would get it's own resin session which takes just over an hour. That means applying the resin and glass, and continually pushing the fibreglass down for minimal air bubbles errant glass strands. Took about 3 hours total for both guards e.g pour/mix resin, lay glass, continue surface prep until brush turns cloggy. Takes about 1.5L of resin to do a couple of layers of fibreglass. Pre cutting helped a lot with a large 450gm piece laid on the cured gelcoat and cut in specific areas to reduce clumping on curves or edges (hence why there are random strands on the gelcoat). Cured gelcoat was lightly scuffed with 80grit to ensure adhesion layer.

No shots of layup in between glass sessions on the phone so will have to wait till I get of the main camera. Did two sessions per side with about 5-6 layers of matt, then I cut up some wood, added relief slots to curve the wood and hot glued to the cured resin for reinforcement.
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Got to the point where I was finished enough to remove the protective covering over engine and door openings. Drove the RC out of the garage and cleaned up after myself and with some help, put the doors back on. Drop clothes under the guards worked a treat, though there were a lot of loose strands to clean up.
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As you can see, the guards have reinforcement in them to minimise warping once released from the guard itself. The hot glue lifted in places, so I'll need to reinforce the wood with more resin and glass. So far, this has taken around 10L of resin. Started removing the temp flanges and moulds are starting to look good. Minor wrinkling of the gelcoat in certain places, but not a bigger and can be repaired.
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