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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:25 pm 
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Clubman

Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:46 pm
Posts: 139
Location: North Yorkshire
Car Model: ST185 CS/RC
Hello Darryl
Will have a look tomorrow,
been mapping today with less than desired results
and feeling pooped.

Do you happen to know the standard spring rates?

Thanks

Stephen

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1993 Carlos Sainz 2939, Forged, Apexi RX6B turbo with external wastegate. MOTEC M4, AFPR and 800cc injects. 3" exhaust, +1mm valves.ST205 cams. Rays 8.5" x 17". 205 rear subframe. Bilstein coilovers. 205 brakes.TRD diff


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 Post subject: Re: BC coilovers st185
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:11 pm 
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Junior WRC

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 595
Location: Knoxville, TN USA
Car Model: None
I currently have tein HAs, but my issues with them are they can not go low enough, and they are not digressive. They handle well at autox, but I want something with more features. BC only offers the BR & RM for the 185. I have read mixed reviews. RM seems decent, but harder to adjust. It is an inverted strut. They seem like a good entry level unit, but if I am going to leave my teins I want to upgrade rather than a linear move. BCs are also progressive but a smaller piston etc than my teins.
I have been on the phone with BC talking to them about my coilover options. It seems an acceptable option from them is their ER series. They said they can custom build it for me. They would Build off the RAM system and add a remote canister to the strut that would make it a two way. It would be built to dyno specs, and desired spring ratess, dyno matched for 2500usd. It is not an awful deal, but for 2800 they would build a 3-way adjustable inverted ZR with low speed adjustment to have more digressive characteristics. I can not find a lot of info on their ZR system though. Maybe because it is the price closer to KW or the like. Sadly it seems like their are tons of entry level stuff for the 185, and a fair amount of high end stuff, but no mid range. I wanted Fortune Auto coilovers, but they discontinued them for the 185 due to fitment problems. I considered Ceika coilovers, but I read some rumors they are made in the same factory as BC. That might mean it would be a better deal for a custom BC coilover, but being its from overseas I bet it would be a pain taking care of warranty or getting them rebuilt. I have read some decent reviews on their products though.
BC does sell their lower mount for $50 each. So if I could find a threaded sleeve in M53x2 I could make my own coilovers adjusted by the lower mount. On the note of custom coilovers, I have a friend who builds coilovers for race mr2s using the Koni 8611 race shock.
www.koniracing.com/8611.cfm#tech info
He used to race an 185 and says he can build me a set, but for the cost after inserts and all I am still looking over $2000. That would be fine so long as I know it could suit all my needs.
The other option is using a set of the oem struts and making my own coilover with custom inserts. I am leaning towards a bilstein insert. I read somewhere the 205 insert is the same diameter as the 185 insert. It might be shorter, but that is fine for me since it would help lower the car without reducing the stroke. I could get another set revalved and use them as inserts in the rear. I also looked at some bilstein HDs for the Evo MR I could make work, but the bilsteins do not have adjusters, so I could pay to upgrade them. I also saw you can have an ohlins canister added to them to make them two way adjustable. I found a racer who does this, but not yet any shops who do the service yet.
Lastly, I discovered this last night. This guy rebuilds his teins with aftermarket parts to make them digressive. I am sure I can find a shop to do this, even using bilstein parts. The problem is I do not know if there is a way to shorten the suspension body but retain the stroke length. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-FEn4-hfLY
I still have a lot of research to do, but it looks like any route I go, it won't be cheap. At least

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Coldiron (Cold - Iron)
1992 Celica Gt4 RC Conv. St205 swap
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 Post subject: Re: BC coilovers st185
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:32 pm 
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Clubman

Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:46 pm
Posts: 139
Location: North Yorkshire
Car Model: ST185 CS/RC
I have used 40mm Bilstein struts converted to coilovers on my st205
Valved to 350/130 front and maybe 250/130 rear
with 8kg front and 5kg rear springs
Handled pretty good
As long as the strut rates are matched to spring rates, adjustable is not necessary

These are the sort of figures that I will be using on my 185

My 1200kg GT86 has Ohlins with 6kg all round,
The rear struts are inboard, so are in effect less than 6kg in practice

Low cars only run well on smooth surfaces
otherwise you will be speed restricted on rougher ground

Stephen

_________________
1993 Carlos Sainz 2939, Forged, Apexi RX6B turbo with external wastegate. MOTEC M4, AFPR and 800cc injects. 3" exhaust, +1mm valves.ST205 cams. Rays 8.5" x 17". 205 rear subframe. Bilstein coilovers. 205 brakes.TRD diff


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 Post subject: Re: BC coilovers st185
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:54 pm 
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Junior WRC

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 595
Location: Knoxville, TN USA
Car Model: None
How tall are the bodies of the 205 bilsteins you used? Any idea of the part number?
I was planning on running 8kg front and 7kg rear. A local is now also interested in my teins and will also give me his oem struts that I can modify into coilovers.

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Coldiron (Cold - Iron)
1992 Celica Gt4 RC Conv. St205 swap
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http://www.noritoy.com


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 Post subject: Re: BC coilovers st185
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:45 am 
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Clubman

Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:46 pm
Posts: 139
Location: North Yorkshire
Car Model: ST185 CS/RC
Hi

I am about 3 weeks away from having 185 Bilstein measurements
the 205 was sold over 2 years ago

With the 185 I started with TRD springs
Which are 10kg front and 8kg rear
and found them too hard for road use,
maybe ok for track,
this was in conjunction with Bilstein struts
Stephen

_________________
1993 Carlos Sainz 2939, Forged, Apexi RX6B turbo with external wastegate. MOTEC M4, AFPR and 800cc injects. 3" exhaust, +1mm valves.ST205 cams. Rays 8.5" x 17". 205 rear subframe. Bilstein coilovers. 205 brakes.TRD diff


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 Post subject: Re: BC coilovers st185
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:20 pm 
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Junior WRC

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 595
Location: Knoxville, TN USA
Car Model: None
While looking for the 205 part I found they already make the b6 for te 185. I am more interested in the b8 though but I am going to continue to hunt for specs and see what all my options are. I also found more valves and parts that I could use to make my teins digressive. http://web1.carparts-cat.com/default.as ... 245&1260=1

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Coldiron (Cold - Iron)
1992 Celica Gt4 RC Conv. St205 swap
Image
http://www.noritoy.com


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 Post subject: Re: BC coilovers st185
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:21 pm 
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Clubman

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:01 am
Posts: 79
Location: Cheltenham
Car Model: ST205
BCs are BRILLIANT for the price. I'm running Type RA all round on my 205 with the ST202 (AT200) versions at the front (MacPherson conversion). Spring rates 9kg at front and 7kg at back. Valving of the dampers (I understand) is basic to say the least but for track work, where the surfaces are (mainly) smooth, I've been delighted with the performance per £ spent. They are not going to provide digressive damping.

I'd also say that the ride is substantially more compliant that the 205 I had with Tein SuperStreet coilovers fitted. The car is semi-stripped and probably about 1350kg at present.


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 Post subject: Re: BC coilovers st185
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:54 pm 
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Junior WRC

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 595
Location: Knoxville, TN USA
Car Model: None
The Tein SS rides much better than my HA on the street, so if the RM is better than that, it should be quite the improvement. If I could find someone near their office here I can get them to measure if the ER would fit, which means no need for a custom set.
I am still torn on what to do. I could get my teins rebuilt with a 35mm QA1 digressive valve, get BCs or get 4 sw20 rear bilstein inserts revalved and convert the bodies to coilovers. I sort of gave up on using EVO MR inserts as I think it would be more work than using the mr2 ones I already know fit, and are also shorter than the 185 inserts. I still have a lot of research to do though. Thanks for the info. My car was 1,487kg years ago but I think it should be closer to 1,442 by now. I still have another 29kg or so going off in the near future.

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Coldiron (Cold - Iron)
1992 Celica Gt4 RC Conv. St205 swap
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http://www.noritoy.com


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 Post subject: Re: BC coilovers st185
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:24 pm 
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Junior WRC

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 595
Location: Knoxville, TN USA
Car Model: None
I got an idea. So I wanted fortune auto coilovers to begin with. They have great reviews, are digressive and come with a shock dyno for each shock. They are not that much more than BC and have a whole slew of upgrade options. While looking into bilsteins I found that the front inserts for the 185 and 205 are pretty much the same. We already know the rear coilovers bolt in. The only problem I am running into is the lower mount. The fronts will come with a lower mount for the 205. If I can find out the Fortune Auto body thread pitch, I can know if the BC lower mounts (which can be bought separate) can be used on the FA coilovers and adapted to a 185.

EDIT: Nevermind, FA just got back with me and say they do not make them for the 205 as well. I did just hear back from Ceika, but I still don't know enough about them. They also do not suggest digressive for street, only gravel coilovers. Not sure why that is.

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Coldiron (Cold - Iron)
1992 Celica Gt4 RC Conv. St205 swap
Image
http://www.noritoy.com


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 Post subject: Re: BC coilovers st185
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:36 pm 
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Junior WRC

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 595
Location: Knoxville, TN USA
Car Model: None
So I had spent the week on the phone with Fortune Auto, and did discover they made them for the 205. The lower mount has to be welded. I got them to send me drawings and I compared them to my teins. I could possibly weld on brackets for them to mount to the 185 spindle. Not sure if all that is worth the trouble though. I also spent time on the phone with KW, Koni and others trying to figure out solutions. I know a fair bit, but I do not think I know enough to build a proper suspension myself. At least something better than something already made for my car.
During my research I found out the ER was made for the 185. Here is a the link to them. http://www.thperformance.hr/proizvod/er-serija
A Croatian shop tested the prototype. I have not been able to reach them yet, but I showed this to BC and they are going to research it for me. If they can verify fitment, then I can get their ER setup for the 185 at the Er cost instead of the custom cost. About $700 less. So waiting on them, I think that is the route I am going to go once I hear back. Teins are coming off the car, and likely shipped to their new owner next week.

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Coldiron (Cold - Iron)
1992 Celica Gt4 RC Conv. St205 swap
Image
http://www.noritoy.com


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 Post subject: Re: BC coilovers st185
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:24 am 
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Junior WRC

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 595
Location: Knoxville, TN USA
Car Model: None
Just to follow up. I ended up going with the FEAL 441s and I am very happy with them.

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Coldiron (Cold - Iron)
1992 Celica Gt4 RC Conv. St205 swap
Image
http://www.noritoy.com


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