I am starting research for finding a new ignition, fuel and boost control system for my car cause the L-Jetronic sucks imo.

I want an ECU that is controllable by road test mapping via a labtop, without the need for expensive rolling road sessions.

It must also be able to connect a cam/phase signal for sequential injection, allow connections for a DIS system, control boost and it would be nice to use existing NTC's, TPS, IAC, knock sensor's etc.

i have experience using Motec's and have always seen them to be the best.

But now i am very intersted in the DTA stuff which seems to have all the stuff needed apart from maps of 20x14, i would prefer any system to be a base of 16x16 or more.

I would be interested in what systems owners have knowledge with and what they have fitted in their vehicles.

I want to know about combined systems, not just a piggy back fuel system or boost control.

Here's some links:

http://www.motec.com.au/

http://www.dtafast.co.uk/

http://www.apexi-usa.com/

I'm not worried about costs yet, just want to see what is available

your views and experience will be well appreciated. thanks.

Cheers Kelt

have you also looked at the autronic? it was designed by the same people who came up with the motec ecu. it also has a builtin wideband lambda sensor and you can tell it to automatically adjust engine parameters to maintain a constant 12:1 AFR (or whatever you set it to)

if it was my money, i would either get a plugin replacement apexi power FC (tho think this only applies to the 205, without loom bodging for a 185 to remove afm) or go the whole hog and get an autronic.

_________________
Sprint ST165 aka "The 500BHP Sledgehammer" #6 in the Toyota Sprint Series. GT3071 1.9bar

It depends where you are headed. I have been converted to the Apexi PFC for street use. With the exception of (in relative terms) low resolution 12x12 maps it seems to do everything you could ever ask for wen you combine it with the datalogit kit

I would not rule this out unless you are looking for a seriously high performance engine where the last 5% is crucial and you're prepared to sarifice the extra 100% on price....

I'd agree with the above, assuming the Apexi is available for an ATA ST185?

I've got a MoTeC on my ST205 which is working very well on road and track but you have to watch the 'hidden' costs e.g. WB Lambda software upgrade. sensor costs etc.

I'd assume you'd have to convert your ST185 to use a MAP sensor instead of the AFM if you were to got down the MoTeC/Autronic route. Can't advise on the Apexi/ST185 combo tho. Might be worth sending a PM to Diceman as he has a fair bit of experience now with the Apexi.

HTH

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

Apexi is not really what i'm looking for.

I will change to a MAP sensor.

I'm not looking for a shiny magic box tapped to the dash, it doesn't do what i want it for.

i would like a discreet ECU that is connectable to a labtop to do fine tuning.
I want to optimise BHP, MPG while maintaining control of the safety limits such as boost, detonation etc.

i want to sustain my engine components as long as possible while delivering the best possible performance and fuel ecomony.

This can only be done by using a wasted spark system and using a ECU that can control both ignition, fuel and boost while operating a sequential fuel injection system in conjuntion with the DIS, only injecting fuel in the correct firing sequence. 1342.

So far only the Motec and DTA seem to fit the bill.
I did have some info on omex but cant find it and their website is down at the moment.

It was my understanding that OMEX couldnt handle force induced applications. The Hydra Nemesis also does what you have listed above and can be had in a plug and play format for the 185, albeit with a bit of rewiring for the MAP sensor addition.

Kelt - iirc you mention the ability to monitor the stock KS, this will rule out a fair few ECUs imho.

I agree with the above comments, the 205 Power FC is a great bit of kit, and with a little wiring and initiative could relatively easily be converted to run a 185, but you WILL need the Datalogit to get the best from the setup.

I don't think either the MoTeC or Autronic have an input for the KS. iirc Link, AEM and Hydra do, but keeping track on the ever increasing array of options is difficult! Hurrah for electronics!

If it were my money I'd go for a Power FC, only because it'll flash the engine dash light when things do wrong!

_________________
Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
_______________________________________
Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement

Kelt,

The other factor you haven't mentioned is how much support you would be looking for?

I had a Haltech in my 165, we were able to reuse some sensors and it had real time mapping on the laptop.

However, most RR's didn't specifically support the Haltech and we had to do the majority of the mapping ourselves.

I am not saying the Haltech will address all of your requirements (I don't know enough about the newer models), however I thought i would mention it as people always seem to over look the Haltech in the UK.

_________________
Loosey
Loosey@gt4dc.co.uk
Storm Blue JDM ST205
Super White JDM ST205
http://www.gtfours.co.uk

Some people are like a Slinky .. Not really good for anything, but they make you smile when you shove them down the stairs!

Hi,
I'd like to add something into this post that may or maynot fit the bill,

i have been looking into this for my own car as a possibility for improving the engine management on the cheep.

The system i am looking at was designed as a project for adding fuel injection to a carb controlled engine.

it seems to have gone way beyond the original consept and is heading well into being a stand alone management system.
To date there is a version 2 control chip and code for functions is being developed, this chip offers 12x12 maps for fuel and ignition the chip is a 24 MHz HCS12 processor.

the system started out as a main ecu using addon boards for control.

The system i am looking at is well developed and has good support for the code which is freely avalible, as is the tuning software,flash program for the chip.

The V1 chip is slower at about 8mhz but is fully supported and requires only a chip change when the V2 chip catches up.

The latest board with V1 chip and the extra code looks impressive, the board has injector drivers built in so you can use almost any injector low or hi impedance. with out resistor packs.

there is a

full fuel and ignition map
boost control
rev limiter
fuel cut control
built in 250kpa map (21psi upgradeable to 300 or 400kpa 29psi and over)
boost setting
injectors can use pulse width
squirt 1,2,3,4, ect times per rev
control for multi injectors per cyl
nitrous control
fan control
Fidle
spark control

and many more things it can be addapted to,

ignition control allows the use of point (eek)
hall effect
dis using after market stuff or readily avalible ford Edis system from 89-93ish orion/escort/sierra/granada.
GMdis a vauxhall system and others

it has real time datalogging via a lap top and really requires the user to get involved which has to be the way to learn.

you can get it ready built but really was designed as a kit you can get the basic kit then source all the reistors your self or a full kit which has all the parts provided, you then just solder them in as instructed (good instructiions) the chip comes programmed up you just need to set what you want on it and map it.

cost wise it is under 200 quid for the unbuilt kit.

currently there is a new chip in developement which runs at 100mhz.
for the cost involved i think it has potential and was worth a mention.

The system is called MegaSquirt and it's site is here there is alot to take in and the info may just prove useful in understanding other systems.
http://www.megasquirt.info/index.html

_________________
1990 JDM ST185 Grey.
ST205 head gasket.
ARP head bolts.
ST205 Koyo Rad. (almost)
Front mount intercooler.
Colder plugs.
3" decat pipe.
4 Branch manifold.
Nitrous Oxide Steroids for Cars!

Midnite - sounds good...

Datajon on here has been looking at the Megasquirt and has had some success with it, but I believe he is looking at a different ECU to cope with his needs? i.e. he has outgrown what the Megasquirt offers.

_________________
Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
_______________________________________
Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement

Still i think it offers a major insight into what goes into such a system, fault finding cos you build it.

how to map and how they affect the performance and so on.

i can see how the MS-1 chips feature can be out grown compaired to say motec, but when it was started it only controlled injectors the fact that code can be developed by anyone has lead to the extra code now in use which has added the ability to control addon boards for spark ect.

the MS-2 code has no where near the same controls yet but this code is being developed now. so this would suggest much more control with developed codes.

when the ultra becomes avalible it should be even better and offers even better injector control.

the MS system uses out puts which are configured in the code and by the tuning program so there is a limit channel wise.

i'm looking at it as an entry level idea because i don't think i can afford or justify to er in door spending out on motec or such for what she sees as an old car!

As the project MS that is is only 3 years old i think they have gotten along way.

i'll have to have a chat with datajon about this then thanks for the pointer there chris.

_________________
1990 JDM ST185 Grey.
ST205 head gasket.
ARP head bolts.
ST205 Koyo Rad. (almost)
Front mount intercooler.
Colder plugs.
3" decat pipe.
4 Branch manifold.
Nitrous Oxide Steroids for Cars!

Midnite - I agree this is an excellent bit of kit! The knowledge accumulated by building, installing and mapping it will be very valuable and I would assume a similar set of techniques could be applied to every programmable ECU.

I think it's a good project to start and the sense of achievement when it runs and runs well will be well worth it!

_________________
Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
_______________________________________
Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement

well once i have moved on friday and get settled in i'm thinking i might order some kit and take a look at this cheaky chappie.

i have run the tuning prog on the pc and it looks cool don't fully understand it but i'm willing to learn.

i've made some electronic devices in the past so i should be ok on that score.

just need to work out how to best conect it in and find some base settings

_________________
1990 JDM ST185 Grey.
ST205 head gasket.
ARP head bolts.
ST205 Koyo Rad. (almost)
Front mount intercooler.
Colder plugs.
3" decat pipe.
4 Branch manifold.
Nitrous Oxide Steroids for Cars!

Kris - thanks i didn't realise that the Motec couldn't control the KS.
The M4 has an aux voltage input but i dont know if the ECU could interpret it to control boost levels in the event of det.

Loosey - I am competant with fuel injection systems and dont require a tell tale warning system to rectify any faults, i can use a trusty multimeter and osilloscope for fault finding.

However i haven't got much of a clue with circuit boards or mapping, but that is what i want to get in to. i want to map it all my self and learn about it all, i want to see how much power i can get safely using an aftermarket system using standard internals.

Midnite - the MS sounds interesting

Thanks everyone for your views i will continue my search for the right system.