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TTE Airbox build http://www.gt4dc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5053 |
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Author: | Insanity-74 [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | TTE Airbox build |
OK...some of you may have read over on the OC that i have started building a TTE copy style airbox...well as the design is reaching the final stages (I`m kind of designing it as I go) I thought that I would post up on here for any suggestions/comments. THE TOP BIT I know you can buy all sorts of ready made airbox type designs or even...if you can find/afford one a TTE airbox, ![]() but as I cant find one nor afford one I will have to make my own...this poised a few problems, the most critical....what to make it from. Aluminium sheeting was my first thought, but for my amature talentless hands, panel beating alloy sheet into shape was an more or less impossible task, the next option was fibreglass...easy you might say, but as I have never ever fibre glassed anything before it was a steep learning curve.....after many hours of watching “how to fibreglass” clips on you tube I was more or less ready to have a try. First up was to make what I think they call a blunt which is basically a mock up of what you want to make........problem number two...what to make it from...initially I thought of clay, but its heavy and dosnt hold its shape very long so after a few attempts that idea was binned, after that I thought of expanding spray foam but one unleashed from the can its very uncontrollable. After some help from Dan I was introduced to extruded polystyrene...you can buy this in the form of 8ft sheets from B&Q....you have to peel the alloy foil off of it but your left with a very usable sandable substance that is near perfect for shape forming. ![]() I cut the sheet into squares which covered the area that the airbox would take up and glued 4 or 5 layers together which gives me a foamy cube. After drawing a rough shape on the outside I set about it with a kitchen knife.....this gave me a rough shape of the airbox. Next up some 80 grit sandpaper, the extruded plystyrene sands very well, but gives off alot of dust so a breathing mask is essential (DO NOT DO THIS WITHOUT ONE) Once I was hapy with the shape I stuck a piece of alloy pipe onto it to size the inlet for the pipework...plus its easier than trying to shape a perfect circle from polystyrene. ![]() After this I covered it in car body filler to make a smoother outside...halfords provided a huge 5 litre tub of easy sand filler (yellow container) which through alot of trial and error is the easiest to work with and sand. After applying it and letting it dry (about half an hour) I started with 80 grit wet n dry and worked my way down to 2000 grit...this leaves a near mirror finish and what I thought would be a perfect blunt. This is the mk1 which was too angular and never made it past the blunt stage ![]() The mk 2 was similar. Next step was to make a female mould.....after some discussions with fibreglass direct in Ireland (by far the best and most helpful folk in the UK when it comes to fibreglass supplies) I ordered alot of bits......woven roving, fibreglass matt, polyester resin, polyester gel coat (black), blue pva mould release agent, mould release wax, fibreglass rollers and lots of cheap paint brushes. Make sure the gel coat type matches the resin type or they react and ruin each other. ![]() Woven roving ![]() Next I painted the blunt with blue pvc release agent...about 5 coats (it desolves with water to relase the mould ![]() I coated the blunt in polyester gel coat, ![]() left it to become touch dry...I then started with the layers of fibreglass sheet...you have to dived the blunt into halves (top and bottom) with a shelf type thing...then fibreglass on one side up to this...about 4 layers to start with (maybe too many 2 would be best to leave a small amount of flex in the mould to make it easier to break from the blunt) Allowing this to dry over night it was time to separate the top half of the mould from the blunt.....a wegde here and there, a lot of hot water and..... ![]() Disaster...the blunt broke into many pieces...not a problem if you don’t need it again, but as I had only done half the mould it was game over for mk2. The problem being that the extruded polystyrene has no strength...I would need to coat it in a layer of fibreglass to give it strength before adding the car body filler. On the other hand, the mould looked OK though ![]() Mk 4 blunt is currently being sanded, a much smoother flowing design, designed to take a rather large RX8 panel airfilter, the battery will need to be relocated to the boot as it fills a large area of the engine bay...more news soon. Sorry about the bitty writing style...trying to catch up a bit to where I am today...should be better from now on. |
Author: | vincentw [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
looking sweet, keep us posted. |
Author: | Nibbles [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:33 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Suggestion: Don't break the first fibreglass half away before doing the second half. Use the flange on the first as the 'shelf' for the second. Other possibility is to use a rubber mould. This is basically a flexible mould which is easy to remove from both blunt and final product (you may have problems if you don't have enough release angle everywhere). The rubber mould goes into a 'mould box' which then makes the inside rigid enough to lay up the fibreglass on. 2 ways of doing this - either start with a box bigger than the blunt and pour in rubber or expanding foam to cast the mould, OR you can paint on the rubber in several layers to make a much thinner rubber mould but with the correct release angles on the outside and then make a fibreglass mould box on the outside as you did above. Another possibility is to get the thing made as a single piece by rotary moulding, using hard rubber rather than fibreglass. Not something we've tried yet but it has been suggested. This is basically where a measured volume of the liquid is put in the mould then it is contantly turned in all directions so the liquid gradually attaches to the surface in layers and dries. Bentley chemicals in Kidderminster are one of the places most commonly used by the professionals for this sort of stuff, and are very helpful. http://www.bentleychemicals.co.uk/ Thanks for the tip on extruded polystyrene, I'm still using the old fashioned method of building the plug in wood (MDF actually) |
Author: | two_OH_five [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:49 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Excellent work Nial! Can you not just shape the lower mould to suit the top? Seems a shame to bin what is a very nice looking piece of design. I like the fact that it's designed for a PANEL filter. Very good choice I always break any glass out of /off of moulds before it's fully cured so you still have that little bit of flex. Needs a bit of judgement to get the timing just right but it's not rocket science |
Author: | TrackToyFour [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:50 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Great write up and pics Nial, very intereesting and informative. Not many document the blind alleys and disasters en route to the final successful production item. Agree with Steve, this is a much better design as you can use a nice big panel filter. Keep up the good work! |
Author: | Insanity-74 [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:53 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
As a test using mk 3 I decided I had better have a go at making a cast from the female mould...this would give me one half of the finished item....well not the final finished item...mk 3 had a good design and shape but due to me getting carried away with shaping and sanding I forgot the basics...making sure that the whole thing was square...as it turns out the faces were out...only by 3mm but this could be enough to prevent the airfilter from sitting correctly and sealing against the base (which I havnt made anything for yet ![]() I coated the inside of the female mould in release agent wax and gave it a few coats of the blue PVA glue. Remembering the lessons learned from before I would only lay up 2 layers of woven roving onto the black gel coat layer. This prooved pretty successful and the final stage came away with little fuss. (Yes I know it looks a bit raggy, but it was just a test so the edges were of little concern...any edges like this on a final product can easily be cut and filed smooth again) The instep on the intake it to allow for the fitment and bonding of a section of alloy tube, this will give the silicone hose something strog to grip against. ![]() ![]() Remember that this is just a test and only using one half of the top mould but gives an idea of the finished item. This is where I became a little unhappy...although the gel coat does give a nice finish, and the woven roving makes it look a bit like painted carbon fibre it didnt have the "bling factor" that I was looking for....Now I know this if function over form, but to spend this amount of time and effort on something i want it looking right as well as functioning right. So the search began for some carbon fibre. Now carbon fibre is expensive stuff...well out of the reach of my meager wages so I had to find an alternative. This is when on one of the american forums I noted a guy praising the look of some new black fibreglass matting that was new out. Trying to find a UK supplier was a nightmare but fibreglass direct again came to the rescue and searched for a supplier for me...they eventually got back to me...they had managed to find some....a quick purchase of a 5m roll of the stuff and i was back in business. ![]() Its not a bad look......bloody hard to lay up though as its quite stiff and inflexible...I wont be able to have one nice piece to make the box...it will have to be made up of smaller parts, but I think it will look OK...maybe have a bit of a one off look to it....maybe. Right back to sanding mk4 ![]() edit - Bugger..Halfords dont sell RX8 panel filters, a bit reluctant to buy a full on K&N filter just yet as it will get battered by the design process...anyone know of an RX8 owner who might have an old airfilter going spare? |
Author: | Insanity-74 [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Nibbles wrote: Suggestion:
Don't break the first fibreglass half away before doing the second half. Use the flange on the first as the 'shelf' for the second. I found that breaking out the fibreglass is a bit of a challenge...what I intend to do is to break out the top half...then put it back again to do the bottom half. Fingers crossed. I like the idea of a rubber mould and would use this method if I was going into mass production......but I can see a whole world of hurt coming my way if I decide to sell these...the first time someones turbo breaks I can see the blame being placed on the airbox...I might offer a couple out to trusted friends but I`m sorry to say they wont be going for public use...i will however lend out the moulds so that people can make there own if they want to ![]() |
Author: | cms-gt4 [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Cool project. It is risky business when selling car bits. I noticed about everything I buy lately has disclaimers like not meant for road vehicles and use at own risk. |
Author: | two_OH_five [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:22 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
I'd have just used carbon effect fablon (or a wrap as it's called these days ![]() |
Author: | Insanity-74 [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
two_OH_five wrote: I'd have just used carbon effect fablon (or a wrap as it's called these days
![]() Yea but that sticks on the outside, I tried it once on something else, the heat from the engine bay just upsets the glue and it peels off......plus I think its a too complicated shape to "wrap" at my level of ability anyway, Its a bit of a half arsed approach to doing it ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Plus its practice for more carbon fibre effect things ![]() |
Author: | two_OH_five [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Insanity-74 wrote: Its a bit of a half arsed approach to doing it
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Plus its practice for more carbon fibre effect things ![]() As the old saying goe... If a job's worth doing you're talking to the wrong man ![]() |
Author: | Insanity-74 [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:20 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
two_OH_five wrote: Insanity-74 wrote: Its a bit of a half arsed approach to doing it ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Plus its practice for more carbon fibre effect things ![]() As the old saying goe... If a job's worth doing you're talking to the wrong man ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Author: | dale [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
looking good that chap ![]() would deffo be up for something like that if i had time to make it or someone made it for me to buy. ![]() only problem with me is that my fmic pipework goes through the front wing there. ![]() |
Author: | Insanity-74 [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Today I have layed up the mould for mk4, pictures taken but I cant find the lead to transfer the pics from the phone to the computer so a write up will follow...I must say its looking pretty dam good so far...I`ll break out the blunt tomorrow...fingers crossed this one dosnt break to bits...then I can get the second half done...this will make the top complete ![]() The next challenge is designing the base...cold air feeds being the problem, The TTE airbox had a feed from the main beam headlight, but as we all still have the main beam headlight in place this isnt really an option....I might male a forward facing letter box type slot in the from to take advantage of any air that does make it into the engine bay...the reason for this is I think that the standard airbpx cold air feed isnt big enough for a modded engine....hopefully between the two it should be enough to feed lots of cold air to the box. Time will tell. |
Author: | Insanity-74 [ Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:07 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
OK..pictures. Having managed to get the mould smooth again it was time to have another bash at making the female mould. First off coat the blunt in PVA glue (again) ![]() then when that had dried overnight, applied a good thick coat of gel coat ![]() I then layered up the fibreglass......I didnt get a chance to take a photo, once the 1.5% of hardener is added you dont get much working time before the resin turns to an un usable jelly. But disaster again, when it came to take the mould off it was stuck fast so I had to cut it off (I tried for 2 days to part the two items) yet another pile of scrap ![]() So again I had to pepare the blunt...this time I decided to divide it into 4 parts instead of just two. After the usual rigmarole I was left with this ![]() It came apart very easily...the added bonus being that when I come to make the final item, it should be very easy to remove the mould parts without damage. The finish might need some work as the join will show (gel coat picks up even the very slightest of marks) when I have made all 4 parts of the mould I will bolt them all together and make a start on the finished item....fingers crossed the success continues. |
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