www.gt4dc.co.uk :: View topic - 185 brake issue (again)

Fronts

Front brakes from a 205 to a 185 are generally difficult to fit so I've been doing a lot of research and was originally going to go with Martins kit but waited for over a month and decided to go another way. The way I have found means:-

[*]you dont need to fit longer wheel studs
[*]you can keep the dust shield
[*]you dont need a spacer behind the dicsc
[*]you dont need to split the caliper
[*]you dont need to mill anything off the caliper
[*]you dont need to redrill the pcd

So, on with the upgrade!
Chock the back wheels and make sure the handbrakes on!
Get the car up in the air and secure with axel stands again.
While I was under there I treated any rust by griding it off and treating it before wayoxyling the arches and floorpan again
Remove the wheel and you are left with this

Same thing as above, remove the flexi line from the caliper first and if you are upgrading you will need to remove the clips etc and get it through the strut as mentioned above. Caliper removed.

The old disc (in my case) is a 277mm disc and the new one is 296 and a tad thicker from a toyota avensis as the offset of the disc fits really well!
Old vs new

A small part of the dust shield has to be cut off to fit the new caliper

I used a hammer to tap the dust shield back a little and as it was rusted I decided to grind off rust, use Kurerust and then paint it up again to make it pretty

I cleaned up the calipers and pushed the calipers back in as I needed them in as far as they could go

Next I needed new nuts and bolts to fit the new caliper as the old caliper was threaded but the 205 isn't. I read that there is a problem with this as it means you cant get the caliper off without splitting it. I put the nut on the inside of the caliper and it clears the disc no problems. The trick to this is to use a 19mm spanner on the inside of the caliper and then another on the outside.

I put the disc on and secured it with two wheel nuts and then started the process of connecting everything up. Everything seems to be a-OK apart from the thinner disc meant that there was a bigger gap on one brake pad than the other.

I measured this up and it was approx 8mm so I need a spacer making up. I bought some mild steel and asked my local shop to make up two spacers from the brake pad as a template.

After getting the spacers back I could finally start putting it all back together as mentioned above. The spacer cleared up the space a LOT better and looked good.

All finished

I haven't been able to do any miles on this yet as the brake pipes are corroded and need replacing so that's up next but I will report back on the performance and if there are any problems.

Hope you liked it and if it is of any use, please let me know!

Author:	Dorris [ Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:00 am ]
Post subject:	185 brake issue (again)
Hi all I know this has been covered before but looking back through the forums I can’t find what I’m looking for. As we all know standard 185 brakes are pretty pants and some of us would like to up grade but sadly don’t have the mega bucks for an AP up grade etc. The rear is straightforward with the 205 discs and calipers but for the front I was looking at running a set of Brembo 4 pots and some seat Cupra R discs. Although the discs where the idea diameter, width and stud patterns, sadly the height was way to shallow. Then I looked at the Seat Leon 2.0 TDi discs these are 312mm diameter but only 25mm wide and a perfect height of 49.7 but sadly the stud pattern is 5x112. So my plan is to drop the Brembo caliper route and go for the 205 front conversions, which I know plenty of people have done before. So what I’m asking off anyone who knows what else am I going to need apart from the obvious disc calipers etc? I understand I’m going to need some spacers and longer studs etc and maybe hangers but as I thought others have done it before id pick peoples brains, getting things machined is not and issue. Cheers all Dorris

Author:	Nibbles [ Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:
The fundamental problem is the bottom swivel on the 185 prevents running a disk deep enough to allow the 4 pot 205 calipers between disk and wheel. The only solution is to run a spacer behind the disk (205 disk) or between disk & wheel for a shallower disk such as audi TT. You also have to overcome the problem of mounting the caliper as the lugs on the caliper and on the hub are trying to occupy the same space. The simple / cheap answer is to use a sliding caliper with pistons on the inside only - such as the standard 185 one (single or twin pot version). The bigger disk will move the caliper outwards away from the mounting lugs so it's a simple case of making a bracket to bridge the gap. It's not such a big pad area as the 205, but it's still a huge improvement on standard as the disk (heat dissipation) area is larger and the pads have more leverage as they're further out. More research may find a bigger 'sliding' caliper setup (try TT as the disk is shallow) which may well match the performance of the 205 one.

Author:	Gary ST165 [ Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:
for st185 bbk, the st205 4 pots calipers are a pita! don't use a 32mm x 315mm st205 front discs don't use 25mm x 288 scooby discs consider the avensis disc: http://www.gt4oc.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=124352 evasion81 wrote: Fronts Front brakes from a 205 to a 185 are generally difficult to fit so I've been doing a lot of research and was originally going to go with Martins kit but waited for over a month and decided to go another way. The way I have found means:- []you dont need to fit longer wheel studs []you can keep the dust shield []you dont need a spacer behind the dicsc []you dont need to split the caliper []you dont need to mill anything off the caliper []you dont need to redrill the pcd So, on with the upgrade! Chock the back wheels and make sure the handbrakes on! Get the car up in the air and secure with axel stands again. While I was under there I treated any rust by griding it off and treating it before wayoxyling the arches and floorpan again Remove the wheel and you are left with this Same thing as above, remove the flexi line from the caliper first and if you are upgrading you will need to remove the clips etc and get it through the strut as mentioned above. Caliper removed. The old disc (in my case) is a 277mm disc and the new one is 296 and a tad thicker from a toyota avensis as the offset of the disc fits really well! Old vs new A small part of the dust shield has to be cut off to fit the new caliper I used a hammer to tap the dust shield back a little and as it was rusted I decided to grind off rust, use Kurerust and then paint it up again to make it pretty I cleaned up the calipers and pushed the calipers back in as I needed them in as far as they could go Next I needed new nuts and bolts to fit the new caliper as the old caliper was threaded but the 205 isn't. I read that there is a problem with this as it means you cant get the caliper off without splitting it. I put the nut on the inside of the caliper and it clears the disc no problems. The trick to this is to use a 19mm spanner on the inside of the caliper and then another on the outside. I put the disc on and secured it with two wheel nuts and then started the process of connecting everything up. Everything seems to be a-OK apart from the thinner disc meant that there was a bigger gap on one brake pad than the other. I measured this up and it was approx 8mm so I need a spacer making up. I bought some mild steel and asked my local shop to make up two spacers from the brake pad as a template. After getting the spacers back I could finally start putting it all back together as mentioned above. The spacer cleared up the space a LOT better and looked good. All finished I haven't been able to do any miles on this yet as the brake pipes are corroded and need replacing so that's up next but I will report back on the performance and if there are any problems. Hope you liked it and if it is of any use, please let me know!

Author:	rhino [ Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:
http://gt4dc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5187 This looks like a good solution to me

Author:	Diceman [ Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:
also a link to my thread testing fit with St205 calipers & Avensis disc. http://gt4dc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ensis+disc

www.gt4dc.co.uk http://www.gt4dc.co.uk/forum/

185 brake issue (again) http://www.gt4dc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5238	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Dorris [ Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:
Quick question, what model Avensis discs are you using? I have a 07 T180 which run the 295mm with the 5x100, not sure of the centre bore but they are only 24mm wide compared to the 185 25mm. I’ve got a complete set of 205 discs and calipers and was planning on spacing the discs and making hangers for the calipers. Also are you aware that the MG ZT 190 run the same PCD 5x100 but with a 64mm bore a 325mm diameter but again only 25mm thick no idea as yet what the overall height is. Just an idea to look into. Dorris

Author:	Diceman [ Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:40 am ]
Post subject:
Did you measure the 24mm as old discs? I picked up my disc from erghh a Toyota main dealer scrap bin! Hence I don't know exactly what model it came from. Brakes international list the 2.4 ZT251 00-03 year as 295x26mm. Hole diameter is listed as 55.0mm with a disc height of 50.0mm.

Author:	Dorris [ Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:
Your right JP about the 295x26mm My T180 runs Diameter: 295.0 mm Thickness: 26.0 mm Height: 49.0 mm Bore Diameter: 62.0 mm With a 5x100 stud pattern May offer up the Brembos and see how far out they are on the Avensis

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