I have forged rods and looking for forged pistons.
Is it necessary to bore and sleeve the block for 400-450 hp?

Commonly sleeving doesn't work on the 3SGTE - the usual method is to fit the smallest diameter piston you can... think 86.25 or 86.5mm

_________________
Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
_______________________________________
Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement

For maximum reliability a top tip is to find a relatively unworn block and then check the cylinder wall thickness ultrasonically before buying your forged pistons. If your block is worn so much it requires an 86.5mm re-bore then you don't want to be left with a set of 86.25mm pistons you can't use! I am using a new block but I still had the cylinder walls measured as I expect to be running 500+bhp and correspondingly high torque. Its the high torque that normally cracks the cylinder liners. The more cylinder wall thickness you can get the better.

I do know of some guys who have linered their blocks successfully and run 400 - 450bhp including occasional trackdays. They don't post on any of the forums so I don't know exactly how they linered the block. Fensport had issues with the liners lifting and rotating in the block but then they were running 700+bhp. There are a number of options to secure the liners either key them with dowels or the more extreme screw-in type liners. There are only a handful of specialists who can carry out this type of work and so its likely to be expensive.

I would say its generally more cost-effective to find a good block and work from that.

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

agree with the above, on adams car we used his old block and 86.5m Wiesco pistons.

After i beleive 20k miles and some very hard use, 2 full trackdays and many miles at 1.8bar it is still (touch wood) perfectly fine.

As Don says, if you have a good block then go from there as if it ends in tears... its going to be expensive

A cracked liner from a 500hp / 400 ftlb car...

_________________
Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
_______________________________________
Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement

I've heard very little feedback about linered 3sgte, but the ones I did hear about either went very quiet or in 1 case was unsuccessful.
From a pure physics point of view, I don't see how boring out an already thin cylinder wall makes it stronger. The liners are not bonded to it so will not substantially strengthen it. The only benefit I can see is if the liner can allow the engine to continue when the block has cracked behind it.

I'm suspecting I may have just added another cracked block at 86.5 to the list (still running in at actuator boost). Currently looking at going 86.0 in a lightly worn block.

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If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.

thanks for the advice people.
I guess I should wait to see what what my block looks like after it's stripped down first.

If it's standard then you will need either 86.25 or 86.5mm pistons.

Measure, measure, measure and then decide

I highly recommend testing the block for thickness. No point in building up an engine when the cylinder walls are 1.5mm thick!

_________________
Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
_______________________________________
Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement

I believe you will normally get away with a 86.25mm rebore with most standard blocks (if previosuly not machined) as long as you haven't got cracked ringlands scoring the block or mega miles of 200K plus.

0.25mm wear is a hell of a lot, the cylinders are likely to be oval and be banana shaped a bit but it takes major foobar-age to need to go to 86.5mm.

As Kris has said though measure and measure again then decide.

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JP
GT4DC Treasurer

Grey St185 RC
Silver BMW E46 M3
Multicolour yawn Honda VFR400
Silver Honda Civic Type-R

I was running a linered block. It failed when the ARP head studs stretched and allowed the head to lift and the liners move. This was at 1.6+ Bar on a GT3071R, so circa 420-450bhp.

Dan,

Thats very interesting, do you know for sure that the failure was caused by the ARP's stretching?

I was under the impression that the ARP hardwear was of very good quality. I'd be really interested to know your thoughts (before I go and buy a set for my build.)

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GT4DC Events Co-ordinator
1996 ST205 UK

Isn't there 2 specs of ARP head studs?
Most places sell the regular grade version but IIRC there was a special batch of higher grade ones made?

_________________
JP
GT4DC Treasurer

Grey St185 RC
Silver BMW E46 M3
Multicolour yawn Honda VFR400
Silver Honda Civic Type-R

there are two grades of arp bolts, i know there are two codes anyhow.

But strange thing is that we run 1.8bar on adams 3071 and have had no problems with head lift after 20k miles..

if you get head lift after doing arp's torque procedure surely the fault lies on their heads?

Yep think so

Torquing the studs in stages as well as observing their installation procedures reduces the risks of incorrect installation

_________________
Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
_______________________________________
Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement

TTE saw fit to modify the cylinder heads on the WRC ST205's to accomodate the larger Group A spec head bolts. Although the Group A regs were meant to limit power to around 300bhp I think Toyota were pushing more power out of their engines than that, particularly with the 'special' turbos that were discovered by the FIA........

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp