Didn't Johnny Milner (TSS) run (c600bhp) a sleeved 205 block with uplifting results?

I've heard that the 185 block is stronger but don't have anything to back this up.

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Vice Chairman
1990 White UK Celica ST185 - Project DTM
1997 Cream BMW R1200C (as seen in James Bond "Tomorrow Never Dies")
2005 Jaguar X-type 3.0 Sovereign AWD Automatic
Blood Bikes - https://www.freewheelers.org.uk/

I think you're right, on the red ST205 he ran in the TSS? Then he built the TTE short deck block engine for the mental nitrous spooled white, later orange, sprint/hillclimb ST205 I guess he admitted defeat with the stock 3S-GTE block?

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Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

The block is a weak area on the GT4...

It's about time some company offered an aftermarket block!

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Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
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Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement

Even the uprated motorsport spec 200 series Ford YB block suffers from cylinder wall cracking if you push it hard enough so its probably a bit unfair to label all 3S-GTE's as 'weak'. Any production block pushed to double or even treble the power output is doing well. Try doing that with a modern alloy block engine. I would agree that to eliminate the risk of failure then a bespoke block would be the ideal solution. Toyota produced the closed deck 503E race engine to address these weaknesses. Us lesser mortals have make do by carefully building the production 3S and keep our fingers crossed!

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Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

Agree with Don

Look even at the simple old school formula ford donk in his ff1600. That even at stock levels requires a rebuild yearly and the keen folks at the very sharp end will probably freshmen it between races. Push any engine beyond its design limits and expect to find problems

Look at F1 where engines built from unobtanium and the finest wellhardium that money can buy struggle to run for 500 miles without the grenade effect kicking in. If they can't scratch build something to last mere mortals using production kit have very little chance of a trouble free life

Wise words Steve,

I've just been reading about some guy wanting to run a reliable 700bhp daily driver on his 3sgte.

Can I hear a "never going to happen!"?

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GT4DC Events Co-ordinator
1996 ST205 UK

That's gotta be worth a read, got a link Mike?

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02 Mini Cooper Race Car
94 ST205 Import
92 ST185 Carlos Sainz
www.mcnab-racing.co.uk

My philosophy for building my track car engine, in order to obtain relaibility and durability, is...
Spec everything for the engine rebuild and subsidiary parts to cope with 600bhp but run it at 400-450bhp.

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Vice Chairman
1990 White UK Celica ST185 - Project DTM
1997 Cream BMW R1200C (as seen in James Bond "Tomorrow Never Dies")
2005 Jaguar X-type 3.0 Sovereign AWD Automatic
Blood Bikes - https://www.freewheelers.org.uk/

Have a search in the other place for Darton and read from the top of page 1.

Nigel - I think thats a wise approach. Ultimately running an engine at 3 times what it was designed for its never going to be reliable as a daily drive.

Also the power delivery will be totally garbage on the road at that level imo. Almost no power probably till 6k rpm then 700hp!

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GT4DC Events Co-ordinator
1996 ST205 UK

agree, we built adams car with parts that could take the car in theory over 600bhp all day long.

the Carillo rods, the wiesco pistons, everything done but run the car at mid 400's.

After 20k miles or so its still in one peice(touch wood)

5S block?

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GT Four Adovansu

"I want to enjoy the powerful and nimble agility behavior."

5sgte: i agree, sounds logical for 400+

google 2 words, Pat Chinsue

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ST165 turbo 4WD
ST185 GT-FOUR RC Carlos Sainz Limited Edition 825•5000
ST185 turbo 4WD Carlos Sainz Limited Edition 2541•5000

So for someone who's only been involved in rebuilding one engine in his whole life (a MK3 Supra 1G-GTE), starting from scratch if someone wanted a 500bhp 3SGTE roughly what would be the best formula? Is there a common route to such power?

ST165 Block? (I heard is the strongest of them all?)
ST205/ST215 Head?
Forged Pistons
Forged Rods
Standard Crank ok? (I havent heard of anyone doing in a crank so i cant see the point in the TTE Crank)
800cc injectors?
HKS Steel Headgasket?
Fully balanced assembly?

From what i hear you can make a 500(ish)bhp 3S and with the right clutch you can keep it pleasant to drive still?

Pat's car is indeed legendary, but dare I say a large sum of cash!

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GT4DC Events Co-ordinator
1996 ST205 UK

And an engine per season, if not more. No reliability at all.

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René - Carlos Sainz 2433•5000
Turbocelica.nl | ST185 CS restoration and full rebuild

If it ain't broken.. it soon will be