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Inlet temps (pt II)
http://www.gt4dc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=662		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  GT4WRC [ Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:53 am ]
Post subject:  Inlet temps (pt II)
With my new inlet temp sensor/monitor installed, decided to conduct a few tests.
First was to use a second probe placed between the turbo outlet and WAI.

Ambient temp was 23 deg C

Max temps seen during WOT were..

Turbo outlet - 110 deg C

Inlet manifold - 41 deg C

The above temps were recorded together during the same run. I have no doubt turbo outlet temps could have gone higher but I was somewhat restricted by the public roads I was using :wink:

Average inlet temps were around 40 deg C with the lowest seen being 39 deg C. On idle and cruise, turbo outlet was averaging 65 deg C.


Next, the probe was moved to the air filter intake pipe. Air filter is a A'PEXi cone type with no cold air box (yet).
Lowest recorded temp was 33 deg C (while cruising with light throttle) with an average of 45 deg C. In stationary traffic, temp soared up to 60 deg C. Just goes to show the need for a cold air box :shock:

Gives a good starting point for future comparisons. Plans include custom cold air box, larger capacity WAI pre-rad, pre-rad water sprayer, more heat shielding under the WAI itself and water injection.
Gary
Author:  Kris [ Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Some great info there Gary!

That sensor looks like a great bit of kit!

How fast does it react to changing temps?

Are the above temps with WI activated?

From measurements it would appear that installing a water sprayer onto the charge cooler radiator does not realise many gains...
Author:  GT4WRC [ Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Kris.
The sensor reacts pretty quickly to temp changes.

All temps were recorded with out WI, water sprayer etc as they have yet to be installed. All I have done so far is lag the WAI and add some water wetter to the fluid. Other than that, it is stock. Have just placed an order though for a bigger pre-rad which should be up and running in a couple of weeks :)
Gary
Author:  datajon [ Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
HI Gary..

nice to see someone esle monitoring temps..

what sort of boost levels you running..
Author:  GT4WRC [ Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:50 am ]
Post subject: 
datajon wrote:

what sort of boost levels you running..


13.6 psi.
Gary
Author:  Kris [ Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would imagine that all the guys running 1.2bar on the stock CT20b's are seeing higher temps...

Looking forward to hearing about the temps when the boost gets turned up Gary! :shock:
Author:  GT4WRC [ Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm hoping that they'll be dropping at that stage with the other mods ;)
Gary
Author:  paulwrc [ Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:  didnt see that myself
when i did some testing anything over bout 30mph and the temp. at the filter returned to ambient.
Author:  GT4WRC [ Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:29 am ]
Post subject: 
What type of filter?
Author:  TrackToyFour [ Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: didnt see that myself
paulwrc wrote:
when i did some testing anything over bout 30mph and the temp. at the filter returned to ambient.


This was exactly my experience too. I installed a temp sensor on the Blitz SUS Induction System and the only time the temperatures rose above ambient was when I was stuck in traffic. Once under way the temps dropped to ambient after about 30 seconds at 30mph. A number of people have experienced detonation when accelerating hard after standing still for long enough for under-bonnet temps to rise significantly. Water injection (WI) helps a lot to reduce the risk of det in this situation.

A cold air box is almost a complete waste of time in my view as the heat soak will still penetrate through to the induction intake unless you were able to seal aand insulate it completely from the effects of both high under-bonnet air temperatures and heat soak.

Far better in my view to try and create some sort of ram air feed to the induction system so that the induction system is only breathing air at ambient temperature. At speed you might also see a slight increase in horsepower due to the ram air effect.

I'm not sure that a larger intercooler radiator will achieve anything as I suspect the limiting part of the top mount WAIC design is the actual size of the intercooler matrix in the top mount tank. From monitoring the temps on track it is interesting to see that the plenum temps rise dramatically up to 70+ degrees without WI.

Upgrading the stock WAIC to cope is dependent on a number of factors e.g. top mount rad and tank size intercooler pumping speed, intercooler rad size. This is why most people go FMIC although I would seriously question the need for this on a car thats never going to see a track. IMO WI is the best solution as its relatively simple and cost-effective.

Kerplink!
Author:  paulwrc [ Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  hks
spf not shielded at all.
resonator box removed and standard plastic feed left in place
Author:  datajon [ Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
My O My..

I though the hole point of the cold air box, was to have it insulated, completely sealed from the engine bay, with >4" with direct feed from the front..spliter etc..

The Bristol fighter gains almost 50 hp + when at 170 mph, just from ram air effects.

Makes me laugh that people make a cold air box, but really its a useful as a picture of one..

Think this is becoming common practice, these days
Author:  GT4WRC [ Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
When I say cold air box, I mean cold air box - not a piece of metal between the filter and engine which does nothing. Exactly what I did on my Rover - http://www.220gti.co.nz/cold%20air%20box%20mkIII.htm
The box which I'll desig for the 4 will be totally enclosed except for a feed for ambient air from outside the engine bay.

I can see no reason why a larger pre-trad wouldn't be more effective. The coolant capacity will be increased and there will be a larger surface area to transfer the heat. Pretty much the same affect as fitting a larger and more efficient engine radiator. Guess that once it's fitted, I'll soon be able to tell by the temp sensor :wink:
Gary
Author:  datajon [ Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Gary i am not saying you have done this, just saying more and more people make something that looks good, but in fact is not very functional, it seems if looks mean more to some than improvement do.each to there own

looking at what you have done so far i would say its A ok :wink:


Nice link, that’s a little more like it.and finished it of in carbon... :wink: :D

This escort has an air intake the width of the grill, about 2 to 3 " in height, its up behind the plastic, but its open side is facing down , angled slightly to one end, which has the pipe connector going straight to the turbo.

The front intake box, a little similar to the one you posted, but is full width, and houses the air filter, which is full length and depth ,increasing the surface area of the filter, acting like a scoop..all in one go

Its very simple, but so clever, and easy to make


The gains were high from this layout, only thing it was designed for circuit use, not sure what its durability would be on the road, i am sure it would be fine.

www.servicetronics.co.uk/rod1.jpg

This is one of the cars that run this set-up. I have stencilled in the approximate area in red.


I have some pictures of the actual unit, will dig them out as soon as I find them..

The car is own by rod birley, he has owned it for many years, its goes very well, has won a few races too :D

www.rodbirley.com
Author:  TrackToyFour [ Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
I believe big gains can also be had by installing a shroud around the radiators thereby giving the air no other option but to flow through the rad core(s). If you ever see the front nose cone off a WRC car there's usually a kevlar moulding immediately behind it performing just this function. Even a simple ally sheet fabrication around the rad(s) will have an effect. Its certainly something I'll try.
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