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 Post subject: Re: Apexi PFC
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:12 pm 
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Location: Bournemouth
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There are quite a few variants of wiring on a 185, one of which is completely different and won't run at all, may even cause damage to car or ECU so I wouldn't reccomend just plugging in at random.

The following link is for pinouts for various ECU's (some part No. references are wrong as to which car they apply to)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/831 ... iagram.png

The particular pins to look at are as below. Push a sewing pin through the insulation to make contact with the wire to measure voltage relative to ground:

IDL is the switch signal from throttle position sensor to say throttle is closed which will enable the idle solenoid drive. I would expect this to be +5V when throttle open and drop to 0V when closed, although it may be the other way round. Also see if you can find the IDL readout on the commander to cross reference. Wire is blue with white stripe.

RSO (black with white stripe) and RSC (green with white stripe) are the open and close solenoid drives respectively. These should both be at +12V when not driven and will pull to 0V in short pulses when idling (meter will probably flicker at various voltages between 0 and 12)

Bat+ (top right, pink) should be +12V with ignition on or off)

+B and +B1 (bottom right, black with yellow stripe) should both be +12V when the ignition is on. These are connected together on the standard ECU. Sometimes both are wired (+B1 usually thinner wire), sometimes only +B is wired. This may be the cause of the problem if the Apexi expects 2 feeds - although if this were the case I'd expect it to be a known & documented issue.

All the above - when I say +12V I actually mean 'battery voltage' which is likely to be about 14V with the engine running, less at idle or engine off.

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 Post subject: Re: Apexi PFC
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:31 pm 
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Thanks chris, the 185 I'm using won't be run as it has a fuel leak I'm just turning the ignition on to see if I get a read on the commander. I'll have a go with the voltages now actually. I did the IDL yesterday and read 0.2v on the apexi whilst running.


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 Post subject: Re: Apexi PFC
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:11 pm 
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Turning the ignition on will do as much damage as trying to run the engine.

You need to read voltage on the IDL input with throttle closed and also open to ensure a change.

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 Post subject: Re: Apexi PFC
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:45 pm 
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Quote:
Ok been at it with the volt meter chris. Both just with only ignition on and....
Blitz:
RSO. 11v
RSC. 0.5v
IDL. -12v
BAT 12v
+B. 12v

Apexi
RSO. 11v
RSC. 0.5v
IDL. 0.01v
BAT 12v
+B. 12v

So the IDL is reading just about nothing but with the blitz it is -12v.


You must have taken the idl reading on the blitz relative to +12 to get a negative reading. Take all readings with meter negative probe on a good earth.

Also try pushing the throttle while reading the idl signal and note the voltages with throttle off and throttle down.

You haven't noted the reading on +B1 - does this mean it's not wired on your car ? If not, unplug and measure resistance between +B and +B1 pins on the ECU.


It does look like the apexi IS driving the idle valve closed with engine off. Try again with engine running.

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 Post subject: Re: Apexi PFC
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:52 pm 
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Right give me 20 mins mate, thanks for the pasting as I was just going to do that :)


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 Post subject: Re: Apexi PFC
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:56 pm 
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By the way, I'm in if you need me to talk you through anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Apexi PFC
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:58 pm 
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Would +B1 be next to +B? If so I don't have it.


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 Post subject: Re: Apexi PFC
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:29 pm 
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Update following a phone call:

+B1 isn't wired on the car but appears to be connected internally.
IDL status on commander is indicating as it should.
With the engine idling (too low) Voltage on RSC goes right up (indicating no drive to close) but RSO stays undriven.

ECU is being posted for me to look inside. I'm guessing it's either a blown drive transistor on RSO or it's configured for an earlier REV engine which has RSO on a different pin.

As for the 0V reading, I'm puzzled but will investigate.

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 Post subject: Re: Apexi PFC
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:13 pm 
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And a big thank you to Nibbles for being patient with me on the phone. Top guy.


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 Post subject: Re: Apexi PFC
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:05 pm 
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Car Model: ST165
I still have an issue with mine being permanently being on ELD as if rear heated screen or headlights are on but yet the orange ELD behaves as it should?!

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 Post subject: Re: Apexi PFC
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:34 pm 
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ECU has just arrived.

Tested on the MR2 (rev 3) and it idles low and reads 0V so seems the symptoms are the same.

Will have a look inside later & trace some circuits. Meanwhile, if any other apexi REV 3 owners fancy whipping the lid off & taking a photo of the small link PCB could be very useful.

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 Post subject: Re: Apexi PFC
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:43 pm 
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Well, diagnosis of the idle drive was quick - series resistor gone open circuit, but no signs of overheating. A VERY rare failure.

Incorrect voltage detection will be more tricky, like looking for a needle in a haystack without circuit diagrams.

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 Post subject: Re: Apexi PFC
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:14 pm 
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I spoke too soon about no signs of overheating. Looks like very short period large overload such as a short circuit.

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Found the components to measure voltage. Potential divider of R7 (22K) and R9(10K). Protection diode D3 (to 0V and +5V) and capacitor C4 to ground. Also R1(1K) in series.

R7 was open circuit. This won't be overload, just a very rare failure.

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Tested & working now, but with a through hole 22K, need to order in a surface mount one for a proper repair. Hopefully be in tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: Apexi PFC
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:27 pm 
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Location: Camberley, Surrey
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Nice work Chris. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Apexi PFC
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:31 pm 
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I bow down to you sir!


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