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| Designing a combined charge cooler inlet plenum. http://www.gt4dc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6994 |
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| Author: | Insanity-74 [ Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Designing a combined charge cooler inlet plenum. |
I have been reading some books on charge cooler designs and inlet manifold designs and was wondering why you couldn't combine the two ideas? Instead of having an inlet plenum, could you not replace this with a charge cooler? Basically cut the standard inlet plenum off the runners, then weld on a charge cooler. The air would come from the turbo via a very short tube to the throttle body, the throttle body would then feed into the charge cooler,the bottom of the charge cooler would be the four runners that go to the cylinder head inlets. This would keep the charge cooler away from any heat, have a very short air path, have nice turbulent air for the runners and perhaps somehow even up the air distribution to each of the runners? There's probably a reason why this isn't done...but it works in my mind....such as it is. |
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| Author: | Sirius [ Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Designing a combined charge cooler inlet plenum. |
Interesting idea, first thing that springs to mind however on the ST205 would be packaging as there is not alot of space. If you do a google image search there are some interesting pictures - seems it has been employed many times but more frequently on V engines. |
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| Author: | TrackToyFour [ Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Designing a combined charge cooler inlet plenum. |
Assume you are proposing a water to air charge cooler? As well as the space constraints Mike has mentioned placing the charge cooler downstream of the throttle body means that you would have a large volume of air damping the throttle response. This is why race/rally engines favour independent throttle bodies (ITB) mounted on short (generally <330mm) runners to the head. Your setup might be acceptable on a road car but I wouldn't volunteer to be the guinea pig! |
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| Author: | Insanity-74 [ Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Designing a combined charge cooler inlet plenum. |
Maybe I will stick to a good old fashioned FMIC then. Still don't like em though. |
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| Author: | two_OH_five [ Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Designing a combined charge cooler inlet plenum. |
Worth having a nose about t'internet for Mercedes C32 manifolds and info as they use a charge cooler/manifold combo |
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| Author: | Davem45r [ Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Designing a combined charge cooler inlet plenum. |
Insanity-74 wrote: Maybe I will stick to a good old fashioned FMIC then. Still don't like em though. What sort of power are you looking to achieve? I don't like FMIC very much either but not necessary for power goals of 350hp (with usual supporting mods), and close (arguably) to 400hp possible if you don't mind having a couple of gallons of coolant in an extra tank in the car (plus all the other supporting mods). Do I need to revise those power figures down if the car is going to be used on the track? |
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| Author: | Insanity-74 [ Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Designing a combined charge cooler inlet plenum. |
Well at the moment the plans are for a 5sgte probably around the 400bhp mark. More if I can get it without compromising drivability. |
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| Author: | Sunny [ Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Designing a combined charge cooler inlet plenum. |
Hi, iirc the idea comes from jaguar, but it is more due to a package/space problem, i see no further advantage then this this often talked heat soak from the valve cover to the cc isnt that big, just when you not run the car (airflow of the engine bay), and then we also speak about a minimal sourface against the internal fins of the cc i also found many people read up to 60°C when the car is not under boost or starts to, this is just becouse of not enough airflow over the cc, in other words the cc isnt able to cool that minimum air, a few people think that this is heat soak and once under boost it drops immidiately i'am around 430HP (engine) now and the TTE ic works well, especially with the EFR it has all the advantages you list, the only bad thing is the price especially the water/anti freez mix is important, you need as much water as possible in the system, alcohol lowers the power due to the specific heat capacity and heat carriage so possible a test programm with the oem ic could be the first step greetz |
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