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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:41 pm 
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So I have been trying to wrap my head around the concept of how our center differential works. From what I understand is power is sent to an open differential that splits the power 50% front and 50% rear. If there is any slip the viscous coupler locks.

How is the power split 50/50? Is it the ratio on the gears? If one had the gears changed so the power was 60/40 etc... how would the coupler know? What exactly is it using for reference to tell it one side is moving faster than the other.

My curiosity is based around this inside front wheel spin issue. Since there is not an affordable solution for a front lsd, I am curious how one might change the power output to be more rear bias. Reducing power to the front may also reduce the effects of the inside wheel spin. I am just trying to expand this idea I have been pondering on.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:57 am 
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AFAIK there is no way to change the torque split on our centre diff. unless your lucky enough to find an xtrak box / drive shafts and hubs / struts and have v.deep pockets.

The split is not controlled by gearing but by viscous. I suppose it could be possible to change the viscosity of the fluid in the dif but i have no idea if this will actually change anything to do with the ratio and the unit is sealed.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:13 pm 
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Has anyone actually dismantled the transfer box/front diff? I have a broken ST205 transfer box but have not yet had the time to open it up. Any tips and/or photos would be much appreciated :)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:51 pm 
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I'll take some pictures when I dismantle your broken one Don ,)

I still hope the MR2 diff could be built in for the front although hope is diminuishing on that every time i look at the EPC


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:51 pm 
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I plan on taking my old one apart when I go to extract the final drive to put in my RC box. I am not sure how useful my exploration will be since I fragged my dif years back.

Edit: Here are some old center dif photos.
http://gtfour.supras.org.nz/differential.htm

I am curious if Richard Doig still works on gtfours.

MrDB wrote:
AFAIK there is no way to change the torque split on our centre diff. unless your lucky enough to find an xtrak box / drive shafts and hubs / struts and have v.deep pockets.

The split is not controlled by gearing but by viscous. I suppose it could be possible to change the viscosity of the fluid in the dif but i have no idea if this will actually change anything to do with the ratio and the unit is sealed.


Mario Konig offers uprated fluid for the center VC. I am curious how this operates to control power split. I know there is an awd porsche that uses the same style viscous coupler as the gtfour and they have a rear biased power, and some models of subaru use a similar vc as well.


Found this on an EVO forum.
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-engine ... -diff.html

Quote:
From all the info I can find, which is next to nie, The Cusco 35/65 diff replaces the open centre diff in the gearbox with a planetry gear arrangement.

Due to the fact that standard evos torque is controlled either via the viscous coupling or the ACD (this is the limited slip part of the centre diff), torque split cannot be controlled front to rear as standard, as we all know. (much like a standard front or rear lsd, the LSD cannot set one wheel to have a 75/25 torque split at all times, it just controls the amount of slip, the more one wheel slips, the more the diff becomes closer to locked) Which is exactly what the ACD does, control slip, it can be locked, or pretty much open (if ACD) it can't choose to make more torque to the front or rear, its simply not in its design, and I can show you.

For the Cusco tarmac diff to work, a special planetry diff replaces the open centre diff, and as this diff now controls the torque split, the ACD/VCU needs to be removed (replaced), otherwise, they are simply going to try and override the 35/65 torque split.

I have heard that the Cusco diff is effectively an open diff, as it does not use clutch packs etc to control torque split, as this would make it a 50/50 "limited slip diff" much like any other LSD, which makes sense, but it does control the ratio of torque - torque split. (Any normal 50/50 centre LSD will have clutch packs, much like a normal LSD, its the gear design that alows for a 65/35 torque split)

As for the GSC 60/40 diff, I believe they use a spool to replace the VCU, but not a locked spool, an open spool. The VCU/ACD is the carrier for the center diff, without it the diff has only one bearing supporting it, and would flop around like an old mans weenie. But again, this seems to be a planetary diff, driving internal parts at differend speeds to induce a torque split (not geared output ratios)

Its a bit confusing, but with a decent driveline diagram, and some explanation I could probably help.

The Cusco Diffs are only stated for evos up to evo 6, as this was the last of the VCU'd cars - apart from some of the USDM evo's, therefor it the 6/7 centre diff is the same, you can use it in your 7, but removing some of the clutch plates from the ACD, or disengaging the pump to render the ACD inoperative.

PM me on the Evo Oz site (lostinthewoods) and I'll send you my number, give me a call, and hopefully I can clear some things up. (I am in Perth too).



Images from DSM manual.
Image

Image

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Last edited by cms-gt4 on Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:11 pm 
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The centre diff shares the gearbox oil with the front diff and the gears...

I have taken one apart, still got the inner workings in the garage, will have a look for some pictures...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:16 pm 
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Was that from a St165 or St185 (what type) or St205 Kris?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:03 pm 
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Kris wrote:
I have taken one apart, still got the inner workings in the garage, ...
Oooo.....maybe pop over to have a look on Saturday after Thorney :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:52 am 
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Kris wrote:
The centre diff shares the gearbox oil with the front diff and the gears...



Yes, but the VC has its own "oil" (usually silicon liquid).

From what I understood, Viscous Coupling is there to avoid 0/100 split and to keep the split as close to 50/50 as possible.

Never opened the ST205 one, but normally VC just have inside alterned discs connected to front and rear diff and when front to rear discs speed is different, oil heats up, it becomes harder, and it tries to make the discs going to the same speed, that is to say at 50/50 split.

If there is any uprated (harder at hot) oil, it will make this job (keeping split as more as possible close to 50/50) better and faster.

Wolf

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:00 am 
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cms-gt4 wrote:
My curiosity is based around this inside front wheel spin issue. Since there is not an affordable solution for a front lsd, I am curious how one might change the power output to be more rear bias. Reducing power to the front may also reduce the effects of the inside wheel spin. I am just trying to expand this idea I have been pondering on.



Yes, I know what you mean...

Sure, your idea will help but I don't think VC will like a geared fixed split between front and rear! :lol:
At least our old style VC...

Actually things that work better for me to fight inside front wheel spin are:
- front much lower than rear
- harder than stock rear springs
- OEM front stabilizer bar - uprated just the rear one

Wolf

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:52 pm 
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Really intersted in this to.. i seem to remeber from reading at the alltrac forum that there is a company in europe somewhere that does change oil on there gearboxes to make the lock up better..
will try to find it..


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:38 pm 
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sleeper wrote:
Really intersted in this to.. i seem to remeber from reading at the alltrac forum that there is a company in europe somewhere that does change oil on there gearboxes to make the lock up better..
will try to find it..


Mario Konig should have that info.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:27 pm 
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cms-gt4 wrote:
sleeper wrote:
Really intersted in this to.. i seem to remeber from reading at the alltrac forum that there is a company in europe somewhere that does change oil on there gearboxes to make the lock up better..
will try to find it..


Mario Konig should have that info.


is he on this forum?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:33 pm 
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I know he posts over on at.net. I can not remember if he posts here. I wish I could remember his username. He is the guy who had solid dif mounts made many years ago.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:54 am 
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st185-sainz

http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic ... 43&t=36743

perhaps the VC kick in sooner than standard ?


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