hey guys.

Building up my celica gt-four st165 as a track car on a budget...

wondering if anyone is successfully using an ASI rad on the track?. ive heard good things about them in terms of quality for the street but nothing on track work.

can anyone help me out?

thanks

Hi matey,

if you go back to the original alltrac.net thread , and read posts by **betsy** he found his ST165 ASI rad to be less efficient than the stock item (datalogged water temps)

hth

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ST165 turbo 4WD
ST185 GT-FOUR RC Carlos Sainz Limited Edition 825•5000
ST185 turbo 4WD Carlos Sainz Limited Edition 2541•5000

ok thanks man will check it out.. was hoping that some1 here had better results. but actual real evidence like this is disappointing lol..

so what are my other options? and at what cost?

thanks

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1990 Toyota GT-Four ST185. RC motor, 205 box and a GT30!!


1987 Toyota GT-Four ST165. Wanting to be a Rally car!

stock rad is good for 500hp its very efficient and large.

Only problems with them is they are now old and less efficient, replace with stock and you will have a good efficient rad.

If your around 350+ power level then header tank swirl pot is a recommended fit aslo....

I would second those comments. Adrian Smith of Fensport has successfully run a 700+bhp 3S-GTE using the stock rad plus a swirl pot and electric water pump. The EWP is really only necessary if you are running high rpm as this can result in cavitation and hence aeriation of the coolant.

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

Ok thanks for the info..

my rad has a fair few bent fins in the rear and isnt a toyota rad anyway.. looks as though it was replaced at a local radiator dealer.

so u would recommend that i buy brand new from toyota dealer?

thanks

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1990 Toyota GT-Four ST185. RC motor, 205 box and a GT30!!


1987 Toyota GT-Four ST165. Wanting to be a Rally car!

TCB best place mate

http://www.tcbparts.co.uk/

What is the crucial rpm point for the EWP route ?

The OEM pump is optimised to perform during normal road use rather than sustained high rpm. I found that out the hard way during a track day on the Silverstone National Circuit. This track has lots of corners and no really long straights for things to cool off. The end result in my case was the coolant over-pressurized the rad cap and I lost most of the coolant out the rad cap in spectacular fashion. The engine was running above 6,000 rpm for the majority of the time so I strongly suspect that a combination of heat and cavitation caused the problem.
Hope that helps!

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

That helps to confirm my trouble on slow and turny track

I now go the swirlpot and header tank route on a full custom set up but suspect that's not enough to solve, it will help degazing only and retard a bit

I also think the short gearbox ratio i have to install won't help too

Slow twisty stuff cooks engines and brakes largely due to lack of cooling air flow. It needs a very large fan to equate to ram air at 100MPH - look at the size of the fans on dynos and even those don't keep the car as cool in my experience.

I have heard of fitting smaller crank pulleys / larger pump pulleys on high RPM engines. (3s would be larger water pump sprocket & longer cam belt I guess)

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If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.

unfortunately they cost mucho dollar from Toyota! at least twice as much as the chinese ebay alloy offerings

remind us where you are from Canada / USA ?

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ST165 turbo 4WD
ST185 GT-FOUR RC Carlos Sainz Limited Edition 825•5000
ST185 turbo 4WD Carlos Sainz Limited Edition 2541•5000

Sorry I'm from Australia.. very good news for us toyota drivers that the rad doesn't need an upgrade!! most expensive part!

so ill take all this great advice and just stick with the low temp thermo and my trd rad cap!!

thanks guys very helpful. loving this forum!!

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1990 Toyota GT-Four ST185. RC motor, 205 box and a GT30!!


1987 Toyota GT-Four ST165. Wanting to be a Rally car!

If you're planning on a fair bit of track use or running big power where it's likely coolant temperatures will exceed 100C, it's worth going over to a header tank system. If done properly, this will keep the coolant pressurised even as it cools down. With the standard system, excess coolant blows into the expansion tank as the temperature goes up, then the pressure is lost as the temperature comes back down and the coolant contracts. This leads to fluid boiling = gas bubbles = liklehood of cracked block.

In it's simplist form, it just needs a tank with pressure cap (most modern cars use this system so not hard to source). The tank should be mounted so the cap is the highest part of the water system (normally drivers wing or at the back on the bulkhead). The bottom outlet from the tank joins into the bottom radiator hose with a T. The top outlet (inlet) joins to any bleed points - the prime one being the top of the rad. This is made by removing the innards of the rad cap leaving just the seal round the top and free passage to the expansion tank connection. This is then routed to the header tank, and the expansion tank is ditched. Other common bleed points are water elbow on the head, and a swirl pot fitted in the top radiator hose.

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If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.

Chris, I'm not sure that a bleed point on the rad top tank is high enough. You will probably find that it simply bleeds coolant direct into the header under track conditions when the coolant expands. The 185 and 205 WRC cars took the bleed from the arched top hose connecting the coolant outlet from the head to the top of the rad. This is the highest point in the system for those particular cars. Interestingly they didn't run a conventional swirl pot possibly because for the type of rally stages and power outputs (300-350bhp) they didn't need one. You may see bleed lines on photos of the 185, 205 and Corolla WRC rads but these were almost certainly used for venting air locks in the tanks. They even used one on the top right hand corner of the block (this is blank on the road cars) I was looking at a 3S-GE engine in a Dallara Formula 3 car at Brands Hatch a couple of weeks ago and they use the same vent/bleed location on the block. The line terminated in a non-return valve and was not plumbed into the header tank.

For higher outputs and particularly track use I think a high mounted swirl pot is essential and the bleed is taken from the top of the pot to the header tank. Getting the level right for the header and the swirl pot is critical otherwise they will simply fill with coolant and not provide any room for expansion or de-gassing through the bleed line.

I'm sure you know all this anyway but thought it worth summarising for everyones benefit

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp