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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:08 am 
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Sirius wrote:
Steve - for the ARB bushes you can source them cheaper by going direct to Superflex although they are not expensive from Fensport.

ARB bushes are all generic - you just need to know the diameter of the bar required. Also the brackets required a slight modification on the front of my car, but the Fensport bushes are superflex aswell so would require the same mod.


Cool. Cheers matey.
What kind of bracket modification did you have to do?

Steve


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:50 am 
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Sirius wrote:
ARB bushes are all generic - you just need to know the diameter of the bar required. Also the brackets required a slight modification on the front of my car, but the Fensport bushes are superflex aswell so would require the same mod.


Just to clarify:
The brackets with the Whiteline rear ARB for the ST185 are larger than the stock Mr T brackets so Whiteline supply them with matched poly bushes. However, if you go and buy 'generic' bushes you should check both the ID (internal diameter) and the OD (outside diameter) so it will fit both the ARB diameter AND the brackets.

I've also fitted Fensport poly bushes for the stock front and rear ARB's and they required no modification.

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1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:13 pm 
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I've also fitted Fensport poly bushes for the stock front and rear ARB's and they required no modification.

This is likely to be what I will do, Don. I have seen the Whiteline parts but I will choose to stick with stock sized poly bushes for the ARB's for now.

Cheers again gents.

Steve


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:51 pm 
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Quote:
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:12 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

datajon wrote:
HOWEVER, DO NOT change the rear control arm rubberised spherical bearing bushes.


Not sure what Jon is referring to here. Maybe this is an ST185 issue? I assume its the same as the track control arm / trailing arm that most of us have replaced the rubber bushes with polybushes on the ST205? Handling has been fine on road and track since I did mine. If it helps I can always quote the EPC when I get home
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Not sure what bit you don’t understand Don. :D

The MR T part is not a bush....if you change it for a silly poly bush, you will get more play than what is required.


Secondary, i think you have got your wires crossed over bump steer, its not caused by bush play, far from it, its cause by the steering arms changing length from angle change un der suspension loading, compression etc...I know i developed some parts .

I know you play around on track days, but a track day is nothing like racing to win..

its an issue on all of the gt4. :wink:

yes get the epc out, it will show you nothing.. :wink:

I cut one of these bushes in half about 2 years ago, and reliezed what and why. :shock:


Not being funny but how many RACE cars have you set-up DON, i have set-up quite a few, even more some have won championships.

come and see me DON, i will be only to happy to show you what the difference is.. i will even put money on the table ...

This is were this is going..if people want to suggest things without understanding the root problem, further people will follow the same route.


Maybe Don you need to add some strain gauges to you sensor array.

I have measure the superflex as supplied by fensport.. they are rubbish, you can induce over 3 degrees of toe either way.. if this helps you to turn in sharp, then i would love to race you round a track..

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project six million dollar 185, faster, stronger, lighter than before.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:20 pm 
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this would be worth a read

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/longtech3.htm

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project six million dollar 185, faster, stronger, lighter than before.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:21 pm 
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What would be the best bushes for me to replace the arb ones on my car datajon?

Thanks

Steve


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:42 pm 
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Jon,

Tried to post a response to your mega-post on suspension but its so long the firewall at work blocks it :lol:

I'll send it tonight from home!

Cheers,

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Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:49 pm 
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the superflex ones, as they stiffen up the ARB movement

what jon is talking about is suspension geometry changes under load. the front hub isnt affected by changing the bushes because theyre not rose jointed.
two of the rear arms have rose joints where they connect to the hub.

by changing these to a fixed mount you are not allowing the hub geometry to change when the hub is moved. instead, there is no "slack" in the mount and the hub is effectively pushed out of alignment
thats how i read it anyway, im not a race engineer like jon but i hope what i wrote makes good sense to the layman

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:50 pm 
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If it’s for track racing, then alloy mounts with replaceable liners, for arb mounts.

For road/track day, use bonrath blue, or nylatron, polyurethane is a little to soft for arb’s it an improvement over stock arb bushes for sure, but not my chosen route.

Bonrath bushes work much better than super flex, sure flex, etc, i have used these on many track cars, and they increase sure footedness, they don’t flex under load, especially when running racing slicks, that grip.

I use nylatron, its easy to machine, self lubricating.

The arb, is reactive, every little bit of movement in the system, will vastly reduce its efficiency of its purpose.


I would also recommend a double width arb bush mounts; this makes a massive improvements to its function, for very little extra cost.

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project six million dollar 185, faster, stronger, lighter than before.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:35 pm 
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Another take on it is this effort of a diagram .
Image

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project six million dollar 185, faster, stronger, lighter than before.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:51 pm 
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another view on it
Image


I hope this clear's up a little grey area..

And has helped some see the way.

jon

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project six million dollar 185, faster, stronger, lighter than before.


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