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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:24 am 
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I think the general concept now is a large box with easy connections plus a small / neat box connecting via a thin 4 core cable, either round or ribbon.

I'm looking at designing the PCB for the large box to fit 2 or 3 options.
1. The stereo sized box with the large alphanumeric display (as pictured above) and 3 or 4 buttons incorporated on the front panel membrane. This box doesn't have any flange for 'panel mounting' so the user will need to sort out fixings.
2. The smaller DIN box I mentioned first with a smaller 2 line alphanumeric display plus 3 or 4 buttons on the display. (This is the display I have in my current setup and is very clear & easy to read at a glace in the centre console). This box IS designed to mount in a hole in a panel and comes with all the fixings to do so.
3. Possibly box 2 above or maybe a different box but without display and buttons. This will purely be to hide behind the dash.

I may drop option 3 as it will only save a display, panel machining and membrane. It would make sense to retain display & buttons to allow configuration of inputs other than via PC.

Options 1 and 2 would obviously permit standalone operation without the small display box, but it won't look 'space age'. It would be a very functional monitor / warning system that would allow viewing of 1 or 2 sensors to aid with diagnostics / development.

For the small display box, I'm still a bit torn between ideas, option 1 possibly favorite, and develop option 2 later when it's ready to market to a bigger audience.
1. A larger box with large display will allow presentation of a fair bit of information and be easy to see at a glance, but may be a bit more obtrusive and difficult to mount without obscuring existing gauges. May also be difficult to mount ON the dash without obscuring drivers near view. Looking at 155 x 96 x 20 box and 72x52 colour LCD display.
2. The small oval box. Looks very space age, will look good in a catalogue, will appeal to the maccy D posse. Lots of wasted space will allow a display the size of a large postage stamp. How it will strap to anything is beyond me other than a velcro pad onto a flat vertical surface.
3. The small rectangular box already pictured above. Won't look any better than option 1. Won't allow a display much bigger than option 2 (which I can't find a connector for anyway). Will be easier to tuck in somewhere than option 1.

All options of the display box will feature a colour display, probably LCD as oled doesn't seem available any bigger than a postage stamp for sensible money. All options will have 3 or 4 buttons built into the membrane front. It may be worth getting RT to look at producing a dash or pillar pod to mount it.

So the 'system' options and scenarios will be:

1. Large box in centre console or hidden, plus display box in front of driver.
2. Large box in centre console only.
3. Display box only, connecting to existing OBD2 (or my ECU)

The other thing I'm looking at is logging, as it's fairly cheap to add a chunk of memory and a G sensor. The question is, which box should have the G sensor and do the logging ? Should I add internal memory and download via cable to PC (cheapest option), or should I add an SD card / usb stick (not looked at feasability on these yet). My thoughts are to provide the logging in the main box otherwise the display box will need a PC connection or an SD slot built in.


No final decisions will me made for a wek or 2 as I want to familiarise myself with the dspic devices before sending boards for manufacture just so I don't make any glaring mistakes.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:07 pm 
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I'm just dropping this link so I don't lose it and food for thought.

http://www.soselectronic.com/?str=371&a ... n-bega220a
http://www.soselectronic.com/a_info/res ... -VER03.pdf

Has all the toys attached but a wee bit pricy. Also relying on windows not crashing mid lap :lol: Would still need to run with a separate PCB / box to provide enough I/O. Also, manufacturers tend to drop this sort of product at a moments notice.


Thanks for all the input so far folks. Threads like this are very valuble for arriving at a good product.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:32 pm 
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In my case I would be looking at installing the large box remote from the dash or centre console. It occurred to me that if you provide a USB port then I can locate the box almost anywhere and just run the download cable and umbilical to a small dash display. This is the setup on the FFord. I have the USB download cable tywrapped to the top of the cockpit frame so I don't have to grovel in the footwell and reconnect the USB cable every time I want to dowload data ;-)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:06 pm 
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Nibbles wrote:
I'm just dropping this link so I don't lose it and food for thought.

http://www.soselectronic.com/?str=371&a ... n-bega220a
http://www.soselectronic.com/a_info/res ... -VER03.pdf

Has all the toys attached but a wee bit pricy. Also relying on windows not crashing mid lap :lol: Would still need to run with a separate PCB / box to provide enough I/O. Also, manufacturers tend to drop this sort of product at a moments notice.


Thanks for all the input so far folks. Threads like this are very valuble for arriving at a good product.


OOh has steve suggested a car media player built in as well ;-)

I don't know enough about the difficulties if integrating this suggestion but one of the items I liked about my dash was that you could store other maps on it and upload to ECU. Part of my thinking on this was that I really don't want to be lugging a laptop to a trackday (what do you do with it when on track?) and having a road map & track map is sensible IMHO. For race purposes it may be beneficial having wet & dry maps or series of maps to limit torque - it then partners your ECU very nicely :-)

I am quite interested in your ECU and would consider running Arsey on it (once it is finished!) and as such would want a dash display as well. IMHO this woudl be ideally mounted in din sized panel. Having accelerometers for road mapping is very handy :-)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:17 pm 
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cheap china made 7inch android tablet for display/loging ;), and some good software for interface maybe


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:23 pm 
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The product is interesting (but off topic) but the format looks very nice
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewit ... cmd=VIDESC

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:44 pm 
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Chris,
I'm not too sure if this is of any interest to you or not?
In the next few week we are taking a delivery of a 3D printer at work.
This will be able to print from 3d drawings (not to sure of the file formats just yet)
If you have any designs for the dash box or even the ecu you have been looking into I may be able to print you off prototypes. This I should be able to do as a freebie. This will keep your costs down at the design stages.

I won't be able to do this all the time as I think the printer media is a good £25 per kilo so I can't take the mick.

Unfortunatly I can't draw in 3D so I will have to have the drawings to be able to do this.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:53 pm 
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Thanks for the offer, but I would never be looking at sufficient quantities to justify tooling for a custom box, and the finish quality of 3D printers isn't good enough for a production item (give it a few years though :) ).

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:56 pm 
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two_OH_five wrote:
The product is interesting (but off topic) but the format looks very nice
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewit ... cmd=VIDESC

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Have you tried one of these Steve ?

I'm hovering over the 'go on, you know you want to' button. Looks a handy piece of kit for 50 sheets. one of my customers did a similar (but larger) thing a few years back for his own use with a DSP functioning as a spectrum analyiser up to 150KHz.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:17 am 
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Nibbles wrote:
Thanks for the offer, but I would never be looking at sufficient quantities to justify tooling for a custom box, and the finish quality of 3D printers isn't good enough for a production item (give it a few years though :) ).



It was just an idea for prototype only. I wouldn't expect it to last for any period of time.

Agree tooling wouldn't be cheap to create a custom box.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:05 am 
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I haven't tried one Chris but my finger is hovering over the same button

Tries not to blink first :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:10 pm 
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Looking at main unit first, how many inputs are required of each type ? 0-5V, temperature, digital pulse.

What sensors, and what combinations would people envisage ?

Typical install I would think.

Analogue sensors.
    Bosch standard thermistor:
      Coolant temperature.
      Intake temperature.
      Oil temperature. (Are Bosch standard thermistors normally used for this ?)
      Outside temperature.
    0-12V (if connected to standard dash) or 0-5V (inputs can be universal 0-12 with reduced resolution at 0-5)
      Fuel gauge.
      MAP sensor (boost pressure)
      AFR (Wideband output 0-5V)
      Oil pressure.
      Fuel pressure.
    Other (special)
      EGT (Type K thermocouple)
Digital sensors (0-12V pulse, threshold at about 2V)
    Speed.
    RPM.
Built in.
    Battery voltage.
    G sensor (x,y,z). Would require box to be mounted horizontal for accurate reading.

So that's 10 external plus 1 internal analouge input.
2 external digital inputs.

Currently looking at a choice of 2 processors. Both support canbus and have 40 pins.
dsPIC30F4013 - has 12 bit a-d x 13 inputs but is a bit short of I/O as processor has loads of power pins.
PIC18F4682 - 10 bit a/d x 11 but has 5 more i/o pins overall.

(10 bit = 0.1% resolution, 12 bit = 0.025% resolution) e.g. 0-12V in steps of 0.012 or 0.003

Another possibility is use the dspic and a separate processor just to drive the display linked via I2C. May work out well as the display will probably be on a separate PCB anyway


So on the face of it, we have 2 spare analogue inputs (and maybe more digital). What are peoples thoughts about how many should be temperature, and how many should be 0-12V (0-5V)

Do people think there should be more than 2 digital inputs, if so what sensors ?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:21 pm 
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Looking at the logging options.

The unit will have a USB interface to a PC. I think it would be neater to put this on the back and let the user run a standard extension cable round to somewhere accessible. Do people agree, or would it be better to put the connector on the front panel ?

SD card looks like the way to go if I go for a memory card writer as it looks like it interfaces to standard SPI. This would leave the difficulty of making a hole in the panel & membrane look nice. Do people think this is a worthwhile addition, or just stick a big memory chip inside and plug in a PC ?

Display size, I'm starting to think of just going for a smaller display on this unit, so the boards will be universal to bigger or smaller box versions. The large would be incompatible with SD card on the front anyway. The smaller ones I use are still very clear and easy to read in the centre console from driving position (my current setup uses this). What are peoples thoughts ?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:39 pm 
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Nibbles wrote:
Looking at the logging options.

The unit will have a USB interface to a PC. I think it would be neater to put this on the back and let the user run a standard extension cable round to somewhere accessible. Do people agree, or would it be better to put the connector on the front panel ?


At the back with an extension cable I think, as you would probably want the PC on the passenger seat and would look a lot cleaner, and cheap enough to leave in for when it is needed bought from the right place.

Example:-
Out of town stores, hdmi to mini hdmi cable, ~£20.00
Amazon:- £1.69 delivered. Works a treat watching movies streamed from my tablet on the home TV.

Just got to make sure it is located where it does not get fouled up during installation?[/quote]


Quote:
SD card looks like the way to go if I go for a memory card writer as it looks like it interfaces to standard SPI. This would leave the difficulty of making a hole in the panel & membrane look nice. Do people think this is a worthwhile addition, or just stick a big memory chip inside and plug in a PC ?


Big memory chip if probably the cheaper and more desirable option? I do not think the user needs or would want this? and it would add some ugglyness (Yes, I know it is not a word :D)

Quote:
Display size, I'm starting to think of just going for a smaller display on this unit, so the boards will be universal to bigger or smaller box versions. The large would be incompatible with SD card on the front anyway. The smaller ones I use are still very clear and easy to read in the centre console from driving position (my current setup uses this). What are peoples thoughts ?


It would be good to see a pic of your current setup as I cannot remember seeing it?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:24 pm 
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Two processors
The one that does all the analog interfacy stuff might be suitable for re-purposing in the pdm project
Would that make it possible to guise the same dspic as the ecu?

Another thought. USB memory stick a possibility. Need to investigate the OTG potential of the PICs


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