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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:38 am 
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The one I saw was

From one of the responses I think I've misunderestimated locost building. There seemed to be talk of premade wiring looms. I'd assumed everyone would be scratch building perhaps cannibalising bits of Sierra loom along the way

There's one potentially very valid point - CE marking
While you could potentially get through an iva on carbs and points then swap to an of road only ECU it's going to be a bit tricky to do that with the wiring loom :lol:

The whole of the few responses were quite underwhelming (although there's a couple of responders who certainly appear technically knowledgeable on the electrickery side). Based on those responses it wouldn't really be worth doing any of the 3 products
Chris, did you get as far as laying the boards out?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:45 am 
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Might be worth trying to find an alternative market. When I spent time on the LCB forum I found lots of people doing it on a shoestring who clearly wouldn't be interested in anything fancy.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:36 am 
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The only market I see for this product is scratch building electrics, which is kitcar or upper end motorsport. Latter will pay motec inflated price regardless.
CE marking isn't an issue, self certify. unless my memory fails me, they were on about e marking for road use, which I presume would be a requirement for any product which is part of car function.
ecu and dash both have the accessory market available so worth persuing.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:49 pm 
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E marking for wiring looms? Is this more beaurocracy from the men in Brussels? I certaonly won't have an e marked loom on my build and I'm sure there's lots of other stuff that won't be either. Maybe because I have a SORN plate to go with the chassis this won't be an issue?

I really hope you carry on the good work with the dash as I think that has a wide appeal.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:31 pm 
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Looks like it's come in below the radar, I thought it was only some parts of Europe you were only allowed to fit 'approved parts'.

A bit of searching - http://www.in-carpc.co.uk/legislation.htm - http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/03/ARG/jarvis.html

It also appears that ALL products, not just ones that affect operation, require the 'E' mark, and self certification isn't allowed. If this really is the case, then maybe time to shelve the whole lot.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:13 pm 
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I would imagine the way round this is the statement - 'not for road use' that you see on so many products.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:22 pm 
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Interesting thread on the GS forum yesterday. Seems the canbus system on the 1200 is nearly a decade old now so a fairly good indication of reliability. The relevant highlights of the thread:

Quote:
Talk to me about Canbus...
As an 1150 owner thinking of making the jump to a 1200, so I am a canbus virgin. I'm genuninely interested..

- it is actually worth while on a bike. I can see on a 7 series car to save all the wiring that there would be a weight saving. Does a bike wiring loom weight that much?

- does it remain reliable in old age? I view anything less that 6 years old as a 'new' bike and not ready for me yet.

How much stress is wiring in stuff. I currently have:
- USB charging point
- Heated jacked
- running lights
- driving lights
- speed camera warning
- GPS take-off
- autocom

How difficult will it be connecting these all into an early 1200? Can I just put in a fuse pannel wired to the battery through a rely (activated from a feed from the accessory socket)? Electrics I understand - electronics I don't

To be clear, this isn't some 1150 owner mocking a newer bike - although there is part of me that wonders if its a solution to a problem that wasn't really a problem in the first place!


Quote:
Man you would not believe how few wires on these bikes compared to the 1150s

I reckon most of the weight savings came from the redundant wiring

If you have any extra power requirements make up a fuseboard and stick it in the doofer below the saddle

and you are sorted I think the Canbus controller will allow 5 amps (???) before it detects it as an overload and shuts down that circuit

The biggest bit of advice I can give is Always make sure your battery is decent using a schit battery WILL affect the canbus with current surges etc etc So much so I have had to replace 3 for friends even tho they were warned about the battery thing


Quote:
Maybe I worry unnecessarily, (and I'm guessing pretty much every new bike now days needs a computer to fix it somewhere along the line..) but whilst I'm feckin' useless at mechanics, I'd like to think that if I broke down in the middle of no where (and from time to time I do take it somewhere pretty remote) I'd have at least a fighting chance of limping it home.

That's the gamble with hi tech adventure bikes. Would you be better of in Mongolia on a DRZ400 ?? !!


Quote:
The fun starts with data buses when the contacts inevitably degrade. There's no current to overcome any resistance that builds up. Be interesting to see what happens to the 1200s in a few years. Sorting out industrial data comms earns me a lot if money and most of those work in a far cleaner environment than those bikes work in.


Quote:
When contacts degrade (increasing resistance) you get problems with any system, if the contacts are carrying the full current of the device, as in the old system, then things overheat and burn out - the heat being equal to the sqaure of the current times the resistance.

In a correctly designed can bus system the high current is all carried by electronic switches which don't corrode and the low current control circuits don't produce high voltage drops in the contacts - so reliability should be improved.


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Canbus......Buy a vehicle with it and become part of the experiment
I had a new 90K DAF tractor unit, that could not be fixed 3 Canbus systems that refused to communicate with each other...The lease company were in the hands of DAF, as it was still under warranty......Still not fixed last year!!!
I will never knowingly purchase a personal vehicle with it in the system.


Quote:
Sounds like a software problem (I've written CAN gateway code, but not for DAF so don't blame me). If the 1200 software works now, it'll still work when it's older.


Quote:
As an outside observer of the freakish 1200 clan, I have also not seen a single fault reported that's been down to the canbus system....certainly a good number about the bits that hang off it, but nary a one from the system itself.

I reckon that's pretty bloody impressive on a model that's had it since 2004, and I confess, I'd like a canbus wiring loom on my lebbenfiddy

Given that the biggest obstacle to getting to various bits 'n bobs under the tank of the lebbenfiddy is often the obstructive wiring, I reckon that it's a very positive step forwards, this canbus malarkey.......and anyone who has the wherewithal to go off RTW will probably have a couple of meters of wire, an in-line fuse holder and a spare switch in their spares, with which a device (Light, pump, controller, whatever) could be bypassed anyway

I wouldn't have the slightest worry about switching to a 1200 because of the canbus system jimbo.......your masculinity will be far more of a questionable issue than canbus


Quote:
Back when I used to develop automotive software for CAN network layers we got reliable communication over all sorts of terrible out-of-spec wiring (is there any scarier sight than a software engineer with a soldering iron?), so I wouldn't be worrying. Far fewer connections with a multiplex bus, which ought to improve reliability.


Quote:
Not disagreeing with you. I've written CAN gateway software, but more recently I've been working full-time in conservation. I want to leave this world a little better than it might have been without me, and rear view mirrors that tilt down when you select reverse and interior lights that dim gradually don't really do it for me.


Quote:
I would have agreed with you until I acquired a 330D which someone had ticked all the option boxes on -its a tight reverse turn onto my drive and I love the way the mirror tilts down - so thank you for making my world better

I also love the active cruise control, the auto headlight main/dip, the keyless entry and the way it welcomes me with warm light - thank you thank you

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:47 pm 
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I feel sorry for the guy who won't buy a car with can bus. A life of clapped out BL bangers awaits - I'd have thought occasional can bus hiccups would be preferable :lol:

Seems like the general realization is that the issues are mostly down to accessories themselves, not the system. I shall cancel my distributor contract for can bus fluid top up bottles. The sucrose/aqua trade will have to take a hit :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:05 pm 
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Just parking another useful part No. so I don't lose it.

Currently looking at a major re-design of our control system for the electric vehicles so it will be a good way of trying out these devices.

VNH3SP30TR-E STMicroelectronics

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/motor-driver-ics/7147746/

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Hmm, I don't know a great deal about CanBus but I have just come across it being used in new BMS (Building Management Systems) and mechanical services plant installs. Large commercial buildings require a single "dial-in" type computer controlled management system for all systems such as fire alarms, fans/ air handling units, generators, UPS systems. This allows a geek to dial into teh building and remotely reset/monitor/reconfiugure operating parameters.

Just a possible idea of alternative use for all this lot.

Specifically I am looking at Emergency generator set specifications.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:36 pm 
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If you have any contacts who may be interested in custom designed controls such as this in quantity, give me a shout. I'm happy to negociate some sort of commission for you if it's worthwhile.

I've been involved in smoke vent controls a couple of times now. A good few years back on a similar system to this with individual control of all vents in a building from single control panel with a 2 wire loop. More recently just a simple system with individual control local to each vent.

This project isn't totally dead by the way as I have a couple of celicas with electrics starting to show it's age. I may also have another application for it.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:47 pm 
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Amazing,

I remember discussing a home automation use (amongst others) a few weeks ago Chris. As ever, when it comes to new areas someone always has the idea before me. Often by several years :lol:

Always a corpse, never a zombie :(


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:46 pm 
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We were interfacing to centralised building management systems with the older vent system I was involved in, must be near 20 years ago now.

Sorry Steve, it's not exactly the latest thing. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 8:33 pm 
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Yes BMS has been around for years. It is not really an area that I typically get involved in, more an area I skirt around but it is the first time I had specifically found mention of CanBus in a building/equipment specification requirement.

For the domestic high-end market Crestron brand seems to be industry standard equipment.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:23 pm 
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Not an update really, more of an aside.

I did mention a few posts above that I am looking at a major re-design of our electric vehicle electronics. The existing set-up uses discrete power transistors - 8 per vehicle in fact - for the motor drives. These require heatsinking so we use a metal box with the PCB & transistors mounted on the lid with the wires coming in through glands in the box and plugging in to the PCB.

Image

We are currently experiencing increasing problems (age) with intermitant contact from the connectors between the 2 PCB's. We are also having similar problems with the connectors we are using between the lift-off fibreblass bodies and the electronics on the chassis.

The plan is to go over to a system more 'automotive style' system using the box mentioned above somewhere with a single PCB internally - designing out the problem connector. This will also allow us to eliminate the current 'in-line' connector to the removable body as we can put all the body wiring on to one plug in to the control unit, and all the chassis wiring in to the other. These plugs are more suited to the damp and vibration.

In order to do this, we need to get rid of all the power transistors which is where the motor driving chip comes in. I have so far produced a prototype 'replacement drive board' for our current setup, allowing me to evaluate the chip with minimum effort. Intial tests are going well so far and it's looking likely the chip will be able to cope with the loads, certainly on our less demanding sites. The next step is to produce a small batch of 3 or 4 units in the new format and re-wire some of the older vehicles and get them out on sites to test next year.

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