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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 7:44 pm
Posts: 530
Location: Aldershot,Hampshire
Car Model: ST205
Hi - a few years back I purchased a c-one gear set already built into a regular 205 box
From info I was given it had close we ratio 1 - 4 and a standard 5th
Now I sold this as lost interest in my car - however buyer has taken it apart and says it's bog standard unit
Now I bought it off someone who's word I trust fully - can anyone tell me if the internals will look the same or any way to tell
Cheers john

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:53 pm
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Location: Another Shire County
Car Model: ST185
This gearbox was bought from a respected member of this forum - namely ME.
I certainly took out a number of people in my old Red ST205 who can vouch for the close ratio gearing (1 - 4 with standard 5th).
However, I never took the gearbox apart and wouldn't know how to check (other than may be taking the gear set out and counting the teeth) - Anyone?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:03 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:06 am
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
Best way is to count the teeth on the C-One cluster and compare with a standard gear cluster. IIRC you picked up a new C-One cluster some time back? It would be good to do a count on that for reference purposes. I have a standard cluster which I can compare the count to. Happy to help. I'd be intrigued to find out who has taken the 'box apart as there's not many people with the interest or knowledge to do that.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:22 pm 
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The gearbox in Nigel's red ST205 was definitely very close ratio in 1st to 4th ( I did go out in it), it could have been KAAZ or ST185 rally gearbox - only Nigel would know that.

Is there a possibility that the new owner has somehow been given the wrong gearbox?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:14 am
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Location: Camberley, Surrey
Car Model: ST205
Whilst I didn't actually go in the car myself I did convoy with Nigel over 2000 miles to Switzerland and back - I remember him mentioning several times how great the close ratio box was around the twisty stuff in the mountains. His car was certainly having an easier time of things in that terrain than my standard gearbox car.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:29 pm 
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Location: Russia, Izhevsk
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Count the teeth on the gears and all the questions will disappear.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:13 pm
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Location: Bournemouth
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As Diceman above,

Rumour has it that the lightweight 185 has the same ratios as the C-one. It is possible that Nigels 'box was a standard lightweight and not a C-one gearset. I don't know what the differences are, whether material or dimensions are different making the C-one stronger.

I do remember discussion about the gearbox years ago and the close ratios, and that Nigel believed it was a C-one gearset. I guess none of us could rule out the person selling it to Nigel (or even others previous in the chain) claiming it to be C-one when it is actually a standard lightweight version.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 7:44 pm
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Location: Aldershot,Hampshire
Car Model: ST205
Cheers guys - I'll direct him here if he gets back in touch

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 7:44 pm
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Location: Aldershot,Hampshire
Car Model: ST205
Reply from bloke who I sold it to :
I've had a good look today at this box. It's been badly built. There's shims missing as it's a e152 box fitted into a e154 case. Fifth gear has gone as the lower guide was missing. The magnet inside the box is full of filing as well as the remaining oil in the box. There's no way the guy that sold you this didn't know how bad it was as it would have been making hell of a noise. I've recounted the ratios and it's e152, needless to say I'm very disappointed in this and we need to resolve it ASAP.
1st 3.23
2nd 2.142
3rd 1.518
4th 1.258
5th 0.731

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 7:44 pm
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Location: Aldershot,Hampshire
Car Model: ST205
Diceman wrote:
The gearbox in Nigel's red ST205 was definitely very close ratio in 1st to 4th ( I did go out in it)

Is there a possibility that the new owner has somehow been given the wrong gearbox?


The gearbox has been sat in my garage since Nigel dropped it off
No other gearboxes other than one still on the car

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:30 am 
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A little bit of research suggests that the CURRENT KAAZ gear kit has ever so slightly different ratios to the Rally box. There is no saying if the early KAAZ kits were the same as the Rally box. I'd expect that it would be much easier for KAAZ to research the part nos for the ST185 rally box parts and simply sell them as a set but who knows?

Why would anybody buy a rally gearbox and rebuild it into a ST205 E154 case? Maybe swap over the speed sensor and brackets etc but why rebuild?

The gearbox was working fine when I was last in Nigel's car (picking up on odd noises in other peoples cars is something I seem to be notorious for Heh Don/Mike?? I work as an acoustic consultant so my ears are trained to listen it seems!)

I obviously know Nigel very well (as do you) and I have no doubt that if he felt there may be something wrong with any of the parts he would (and did with other parts) tell a prospective purchaser.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:54 pm 
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I was the one that bought the gearbox. I build these gearboxes for all sorts of motorsports so I've just about see every gearbox there is. This was bought for someone else that I was building it for. After opening it up 5th was rattling around under the syncro. Pulled it off and the shim under the bearing was missing. This has caused the gear and hub to wear. There's also damage to the pinion. Pulled the gear cluster out and it's std oem e152 it's had shingle syncros so is based on a e150 to e152 box not the e154 case it was in. There's n dought this is a e152 close ratio box that's fitted into a e154 case and fitted badly. If I could work our how to add pics I would add them.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:14 am
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Location: Camberley, Surrey
Car Model: ST205
Hi beams,

If you would like to put pictures on please use an image hosting service and then link the files to here. I use dropbox which works well.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:33 am 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
beams wrote:
I was the one that bought the gearbox. I build these gearboxes for all sorts of motorsports so I've just about see every gearbox there is. This was bought for someone else that I was building it for. After opening it up 5th was rattling around under the syncro. Pulled it off and the shim under the bearing was missing. This has caused the gear and hub to wear. There's also damage to the pinion. Pulled the gear cluster out and it's std oem e152 it's had shingle syncros so is based on a e150 to e152 box not the e154 case it was in. There's n dought this is a e152 close ratio box that's fitted into a e154 case and fitted badly. If I could work our how to add pics I would add them.


There are a few of us, including myself, who prepare cars and also compete on track. We would be happy to help if we can. You say this is an E152 close ratio cluster but how did you establish this? Did you count the teeth on the gearsets and work out the ratios? If so, what were they? There are several different permutations of OEM and aftermarket ratios. Any info would be appreciated.

There's a link to the guide on how to host and link to photos here: http://www.gt4dc.co.uk/foruminfo/picguide.doc

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:17 am 
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ok will add them later, the e152 is the only why to get std oem close ratios, there are other option like c-one kaaz etc but these all (at least current) use triple syncro hubs and a one piece gear, the e152 box is derived from the e150 using single syncos. so the kit in this box is the same ratios as the e152 as posted above and the same 2 piece gears and single syncro. so I would say its a 152,


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