Quick, question guys, although i think i know the answer already lol.

What would you keep an st205 or 323 gtr?

Both have there merits and minuses

aesthetics, the celica is the nicer looking car i would say, so it wins this one

Rarity, the Mazda wins hands down there imo?

Tuning, the Celica has been developed further power wise and has loads of "on the shelf" parts available, which the 323 does not, however the mazda goes from 185bhp standard to touching 300bhp with filter, manual boost controller, exhaust and decent fmic, so the potential is there and the turbocharger is better on the gtr (bb standard) , The Celica wins, however there is a lot to be said for the small expense for large power increase in the mazda?

Drivetrain, Celica, good solid box, transfer and diffs. Mazda box and transfer are made of chocolate, so Celica runs away with this one.

power to weight, Celica = 1440kgs. Mazda = 1240kgs. No need for anything more to be said

Engine, Celica 2.0, prone to overheating and block cracking unless major expense is put into the cooling system. Mazda 1840cc, smaller but no known problems with cooling system, basically a really good strong engine, imo the mazda takes it on the engine stakes, but i am sure you guys will have something to say about that lol.

My original plan was to convert the mazda to the celica drivetrain (already got the conversion plate for the box) But ti dont want to sacrifice a perfectly good car to do that, which is why i am asking ur thoughts?

One other problem, just noticed that the Celica has previously been written off (cat c) however, i am a panel beater to trade and no welded panels have been replaced (odd repairs have been done here and there on the qtrs but nothing much) and no structural panels have been replaced or repaired. So its purely been either cost of repairs or lack of part availability. But obv resale value will take a hit on the celica, which sucks.

Help please as i really dont know what one to keep?

Cheers John

Hi,

ST205, the mazda is just a toy against the ST205 if you have a look to the transmission they are common to fail frequently

the transmission gears of the ST205 are nearly double that big

greetz

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KEEP COOL UNDER PRESSURE

street legal?.....perhaps in tschibuti

Yeah i know, that was the point of doing the celica transmission conversion to the Mazda though.

tbh i have came up against a celica many years ago in my gtx (not as fast as gtr) and left it standing over a quarter mile???? Although i did spin all 4 wheels off the line and he bogged it lol, you would have thought he had the dodgy trans lol.

So if i did the box conversion to the mazda, which one??

Basically i have been offered a gtr forged engine short block (complete engine, no ancillaries) for a fraction of the cost of rebuilding my own after melting a piston, I had made my mind up to either break the gtr or sell it needing an engine rebuild and keep the easier to fix Celica, but reading up about the cooling problems has kinda put me off as there does not seem to be a cost effective solution. The Mazda weakness is the transmission and i have the conversion plate (although its a *bleep* load of work to do). So it does have a relatively cost effective solution. If i am missing something about a solution to the cooling weaknesses of the Celica please do tell, as i have not bought the engine from the guy for the Mazda yet.

Which car is in better overall shape?

What do you use the car for?

Personally I find it hard to believe you can get a raliable 300 bhp engine with just a exhaust, filter an fmic comming from 185 bhp.

ST205 engine is about 300bhp in stock form with boost set 0,2 bar higher, maybe exhaust, comming from 245+.

Lots of 205 parts. Engine cracks are not so common at all.

Don't know much about the mazda, tbh.

Sell both and buy a ST185 "Carlos Sainz".

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ST185 CS #1845

Once you change the exhaust, filter and fmic on the mazda its actually hard to keep the boost down below 1.2 bar! thats why it raises the power so much, they majorly restricted the engine by basically strangling it lol.

I am not doubting that its easy to get a 205 to 300bhp but to keep up wiv a mazda wiv 300bhp the 205 is gonna need to have about 350bhp+ cause of the weight difference ryt?

I would ideally be using it as a toy lol, track, strip and maybe road if funds allow for the insurance along side my daily driver tdi.

As for overall shape, its a toss up i would say, but cheaper to replace suspension parts on the mazda (normal struts), but you cant get hold of some of the parts for the mazda very easily cause there was only 2500 made worldwide.

I really need to make up my mind lol, cant keep the two of them, although that would be nice lol.

Thanks for replies so far people

Thread may be pointless, as the guy selling the mazda engine to me has just contacted me saying that when he took the plugs out, he could see what looks like pitting on the pistons, and he does not want to sell me more problems. But he is going to get a bore scope down there to have a better look as it may not be actual pitting, The plugs are down a similar amount to the 3sgte engine, so it will be hard to see acurately. Looks like i might not be getting it after all.

What cooling problems are you referring to?

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GT4DC Events Co-ordinator
1996 ST205 UK

I'm not aware of cooling problems.
There is an issue with blocks occasionally cracking on high power engines (400BHP+) but this is minimised by ultrasonic testing of wall thickness and selecting thicker walled blocks on these engines.

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If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.

yeah thats what i am referring to, the fact that you really need to watch what you are doing and test wall thickness and stuff, thats the kind of thing that am really not into doing, its just extra stuff that shouldn't need to be done imo.

I am not adverse to taking precautions like fitting extra oil cooler, swirl pot and stuff so it should not be a problem i guess.

Just engine failures due to the engine cooling system not appearing to be good enough have popped up quite a lot while ave been reading up on these cars thats all, prolly just worrying for nothing lol.

It is amazing how many people mod their cars without addressing any extra cooling issues.

You what are your power goals? You need to decide that to find out how much supporting mods will be needed.

Something else to consider is that as you have said the Mazda engine has no known cooling issues. I know absolutely nothing about the engine or the Mazda scene but how many high power engines of that type are out there? The 3sgte is prolific and so there are lots of higher power engines and hence lots more failures.

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GT4DC Events Co-ordinator
1996 ST205 UK

So replacing the entire drive train with that from another car is fine and testing a wall thickness is too much hastle ?

Go buy a Ferrari and have a car that was designed to run 400+BHP.

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If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.

Just one more thing. My car has been running at 310 HP for approximately
60k miles with the addition of a larger alloy water radiator a lot temperature thermostat and an extra engine oil cooler. That's it.

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GT4DC Events Co-ordinator
1996 ST205 UK

Hi,

the point is that you ain't not need replacement parts on a toyota becouse it is a toyota

greetz

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KEEP COOL UNDER PRESSURE

street legal?.....perhaps in tschibuti

Ok, there are plenty of high power 323's in Oz and NZ, thats why i am saying there are no known cooling issues.

I am not knocking these engines at all, am just trying to weigh up what is going to be best for me.

I love rarity which basically i would loose with the Celica. I cant remember how many times someone has come over to me and asked me if my 323 was a starlet, and then the surprise on there face when you say no its a Mazda 323 and that the engine aint a 1.3 fwd, that its a 1.8 4wd.

Thats why i would rather put the work into making the Mazda stronger transmission wise. Not to mention its a *bleep* load lighter.

I am not looking for a power figure tbh, am looking for a low 12/high 11 sec 1/4 mile car that is also good on a track without spending an inordinate amount of money. I dont mind labour but if am gonna have to spend about 10k on the car to reach what am after, then its no good to me. To clarify i mean spend that all in one go to achieve that, not inc upkeep for example.