Hi everyone, been having a few problems with the alarm and starting my 185 recently, the starter motor had been slowly giving up for a while and appeared to be affecting the alarm/running the battery down constantly so I swapped in one I ordered from a broken car recently. Tested the unit with my local garage and it seemed to work ok. Had a bit of difficulty getting the old unit out, felt like the starting gear was caught inside but in the end managed to get it free. Put the 2nd hand one in, started the car up and after initially nothing it rumbled to life very raggedly, had to give it some throttle to get it to even turn over properly and then it seemed to even out.

The engine started 2 further times on Saturday night but yesterday just wouldn’t start. Sounds like everything’s working as you can hear all the usual clicks and everything, checked error codes and I’ve got a code 12. Any easy place to start checking this? Have had a look online and 12’s are normally associated with earthing problems? Anyone heard of this sort of thing after a starter motor change? Could I have messed up anything internally getting the old unit out?

Think the old unit was the problem anyway, the alarms not draining the battery anymore and works properly so that part of the problem appears to be fixed.
Sorry for the long post, Any kind person out there got any ideas?

Unlikely a starter would drain a battery but not impossible.

A long shot it could be the starter jamming - stick the car in 5th and push forwards & backwards a couple of yards then try again.

I'm suspecting a bad connection which could well have been the problem all along. Most likely to be in the heavy Earth lead from battery to engine (usually Earths on starter from memory) or the heavy + lead from battery + to the starter. Check for signs of overheating on the connections - discolouration, melted insulation, corrosion.

If the problem isn't slow turning of the starter but instead intermittant non-operation, then I'd suspect something in the chain between key and the drive to the starter solenoid. Prime candidates would be the spade connection onto the starter loose/dirty or possibly more likely a faulty immobiliser. They tend to use minature relays for these which TBH are not fit for purpose.



Code 12 means that the ECU isn't seeing the engine turn within 2 seconds of applying signal to the starter motor.

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Cheers mate, won't get a chance to have a look at the car again till tomorrow or probably Thursday.

Not exactly sure of what was the cause, the alarm's not draining the battery or coming on in the middle of ignition when it was starting so somethings changed in there.

One thing though, the plug for the very small wire that attaches to the side of the starter motor, the socket on the new unit was a but cracked and missing part of the housing for the wire, seemed to be a good connection though so i just forgot about it tbh. Maybe thats where to start. might test it before i put the turbo ducting back on as well this time...

will let you know what i find.

Checked all the earthing points and there didnt appear to be any burning or anything like that, but the problems has been located as an almost dead battery, took it down halfords and the tester read as "unservicable", so a new battery it is. bit odd though as i thought with modern batteries once they're dead, they won't take more charge. I must have lost count of how many times i've trickle charged it now but it still seems to take charge? Just doesnt hold it for long. Anyone know a good place to get Batteries thats not too expensive? the one at Halfords was about £150?

Will get a new battery and see if that solves the issue.

I heard a rumour that genuine toyota ones are quite cheap but I'll believe it when I see it. Otherwise try your local motor factor. e.g. http://www.camberleyautofactors.com/home/index.php

Had the battery been charged when he tested it as they only stick a load on, if it was flat already he couldn't read it. It is possible that your alternator isn't charging properly and the battery is going flat as a result.

To test the alternator, get the car running and measure the voltage between the big output terminal at the back of the alternator and the alternator body - it should be about 14-14.5V.
If that's ok, remeasure the voltage across the battery and it should be almost the same, if not you have a wiring fault.

If you want to do a capacity test on the battery, charge it fully with a charger, then put it in the car and leave the lights on (dip). Current draw will be about 10A for 60/55W bulbs, so you will have drawn 10AH for every hour lit. Measure the voltage across the battery at regular intervals and when it reaches 10.5V stop and recharge the battery. The time it took to reach that voltage will give the capacity (AH = time(hrs) x 10)

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Thanks for the advice, at last managed to get hold of a new exide battery and put that in last night which seems to have helped but there's still a pause when you first turn the key, lots of clicks and sounds of things powering up in the engine bay but you have to turn the key to start a second time to start the engine. Will try to get hold of a volt/amp tester and try what you suggested, is that still worth doing at all with a new battery? the alternators been changed already, its not giving the non-charging light on the dash though so i imagine its working ok?

Bit odd though, a problem i had when i first bought the car that sometimes the main fuse needs a nudge to power the car every so often seems to have manifested itself again for the first time in about 6 months so maybe thats it? Think i need to rummage around further in the fuse box...

Finally getting somewhere with the Crate!

Turned out to be the alarm system causing problems starting. The auto electrician found a drain coming from the alarm system, said there were 13 or so volts going in and about 9.5 coming back out and down to the starter motor so basically took the alarm out of the starter motor circuit and the car starts straight away when you turn the key now. Brilliant . Would've never found that one on my own.

Only problem now is that now the CD player is acting very odd, doesnt switch on as such but powers up, then powers down again before properly coming on and the reset button doesnt make any odds. Just flips down its screen and retracts it a second later continuously while powered.

What sort of effect would taking out the alarm have on the car? Its a Toyota OEM option apparently, can i just unhook it without messing too much up electrically? i've seen this can have bad effects on other features like power windows, powered mirrors, sunroofs, etc... Anyone else on here had similar to this before?

I would hazard a guess that the alarm may have taken similar feeds (+ve or -ve) to the head unit (from an ignition feed for example). I would remove the head unit and check the wiring. Check that the ISO adapter (assuming you have one) wiring connections have not been cut into or tampered with. Make sure you have a proper direct feed (+ve) to the unit. Also make sure that the unit is earthed properly. Check the head unit instructions for the correct fitting of the wires.
Troubleshooting spagehetti can be a right pita!...but it's a case of going through one thing at a time and elimating possible causes.
HTH
Good luck.

BTW Does your cigarette lighter work? - its a common point to tap into a live ignition feed.

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Well after taking off the front surround and you're right about the cigarette lighter, i think thats probably whats powering a boost guage a previous owner put in (that sits by my knee when im in the drivers seat and i cannot see whatsoever, its almost next to the under steering wheel air vent - absolutely useless), lots of electrical tape and few actual connections, what a mess! Need to get that sortedb so my satnav stops running out of battery on long trips ಠ_ಠ

I took the head unit out, un-plugged and re-plugged it back in and it didnt make any difference, doesnt have an ISO adaptor but it was working fine before taking the alarm off the starter circuit. will take it down to Halfrauds on the weekend and see whether they've got any suggestions, otherwise i might try to find an auto audio type place, electrics just confuse me.

Thanks for the advice though...

Well, after a couple of days that i've actually been able to drive the car, i put it on alarm last night and now it doesnt react to the key fob. The lights still work inside and external and i can her clicking when you turn the key, but i get the impression the immobilizers on and and its just not going to go until the alarm is turned off, just can't get it to react, unplugged the battery, still no difference.

What will happen if i just unplug the alarm unit completely? Can i do that myself or could it cause other issues and should be done proffesionally by an auto electrician? Its already been identified as possibly being faulty, i just want it out of there now...

I took my crappy alarm system out of the car this week as I had a problem where the immobiliser was inhibiting startup. You can't just start cutting things willy nilly as there are a couple cables that need re-soldering to allow the car to start..what I did was find the control box for the alarm within the cabin and follow each cable to where it is attached to the factory loom.if it is piggybacking an existing cable I cut it out and if it created a break in existing loom I cut it out and re-soldered the oem cables.if I remember correctly, on my car it was mainly underneath the steering column.

P.s. You may have to re-wire a few cables behind the door cards to get windows to work.

Think a fix may have been reached last night at long last, have been tracking down this loose connection with a mechanic from nearby a couple of hours in the evenings the last week and a bit, and he reckons he's found the loose connection, the main 100AMP fuse was not properly in contact with the wires going to it, said it wasnt quite the right fuse but near enough, and then managed to fix it and said i shouldnt have any more issues from there.

So, leaving the alarm in place for the moment, reckon the radio's fried but will test it in another car and see whether that makes any odds. still running the old starter motor since swapping it back in, will probably change over at some point if the current one goes bad again but hopefully wont be for a while.

Cheers for the advice everyone, happy to be able to drive the car again and looking forward to actually seeing some of you at meets again soon...