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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:33 pm 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
The ball joints you have circled are part of the track arm and 'banana arm' and are not service items hence they are not listed by Toyota on their Electronic Parts Catalogue or EPC. There's been a lot of debate over the years on the various forums discussing whether someone could re-manufacture these parts. To date only the Polish guys are offering this and they don't sell the parts to do it yourself.

The overwhelming view of most experienced GT-Four owners is to buy these OEM parts from TCB. They often have them on special and this helps keep the price down. I picked up a set while they had a special offer on a couple of years ago as I'm sure to need them eventually! Personally, with something as critical as suspension I'd prefer to stick with Toyota parts for peace of mind. You don't want wheels falling off while blatting down the motorway :oops: although this never seemed to bother Colin Chapman when designing Lotus sports cars!

Do you know how stiff you want to make your car? If it's your daily drive then do you really want super hard suspension? This can be quite difficult to live with due to the increase in noise, vibration and harshness. With my standard ST205 refurb I'm trying to keep everything stock with rubber bushes where possible. Some of these are no longer available so I'll use the next closest such as the Polybushes which Steve at http://www.gt4-play.co.uk offers or the polybushes offered by the Poles at http://www.gt4-racing.eu. I believe Martin Kingston at https://www.mkautorepairsandtuning.uk/ stocks the Polish bushes so you might get them quicker from him.

If your car is only used for weekends and events, occasional track days etc. only then would I look at fitting polybushes all round. If you are mainly doing track work then I'd go with BRD's offerings. The bushes I have fitted on my track ST205 are very similar hardness (Shore value) to what Lou at BRD is now producing. We had built our track car subframes and suspension before BRD started offering bushes.

I'm also treating my refurbed standard ST205 subframes internally with Bilt Hamber Dynax S50 Cavity Wax http://www.bilthamber.com/cavity-waxes/dynax-s50
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I've found that one can of Dynax S50 will just about stretch to treat the front and rear subframes plus the North-South engine support member. I'll also be sealing the open holes in the subframes with plastic plugs to minimise the ingress of water.

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1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:19 pm 
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Location: Portsmouth
Car Model: ST205
Thanks for that additional Info Don, very useful. really appreciate some of those tips, As you may know I plan to be doing most of the work at the So-Co workshop (Rarshop), and since you had your subframe redone there, it's likely that I will follow your lead.

looks like I will be sending the SSS parts to Poland at this rate. I haven't got the cash for brand new parts, hence why I am looking at refurbishment. As for stiffness and ride quality, the only cars I have driven day in day out have been a 2001 yaris and a defender. It's safe to say, that road noise or stiffness/vibrations are not a problem for me. I have been conditioned by the landrover, so anything that doesn't feel like driving a cathedral on wheels mated with the millennium falcon is a bonus.

I'm not sure of the fate of my four yet, as I'm a still student for the next 6months it's just a play thing at the moment. I want to rebuild it to near oem spec (but cost effective) and have something fun and reliable as it may become a daily. I plan to buy new fig 8s and drop links and Track Rod Ends, but the main arms are quite pricey. It's all a balance between cost and reliability I guess. Thanks for your help though.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:32 pm 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
Haha ... know what you mean re the Landy 'ride quality' ! :D Fours are not cheap cars to fix so bearing in mind your circumstances if you take it slow and steady your plan sounds the best approach. I've been sourcing new bolts for the suspension in the last few weeks. Amazingly most of them still seem to be available, mostly out of Toyota's main European distribution centre in Brussels. Some have had to come from Japan. I do have a collection of bolts from a stripped ST205 so I've been busy matching them to the part numbers of the new bolts. Plan is to keep them as spares.

Word of advice, whatever you do, don't throw anything away, even if it seems like trash. If you don't have room to keep it just offer it on here.

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1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:59 pm 
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Location: Portsmouth
Car Model: ST205
They definitely are expensive, not Maserati expensive, but certainly costly. I have already had to replace the clutch and rear diff mount, within maybe 2 months of owning it. I have been phasing the work based off my student loan payments and how much I can save from my part time job. I have the typical excel spread sheet, with a running total. I'm in phase 4 of 6-8 phases.

How did you go about getting in contact with The Euro centre in Brussels? Did you start at a main dealer? I have asked for any surviving bolts to come with the spares I have ordered. I am looking into buying some assorted marine grade stainless bolts for the car as Barry from SCW advised. It would mean I could replace a lot of old and rusty bolts with something that will last. Any suggestions on typical bolt sizes on a four...m8,m6 etc?

I plan to try and get the car mechanically sound by next MOT which is in August. The advisories so far were about the suspension bushes, a fair amount of rust on the rear subframe and also tyres (but any old ditch finders will do to get it through the test).

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:25 pm 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
I use Inchcape Toyota in Guildford for sourcing the parts which you can't get from the likes of TCB or elsewhere. Nowadays like most places they don't hold stock on the shelf but order it through the Toyota network. They are even billed for using the Toyota intranet parts ordering system! The guy in the Parts Dept. used to work at Grosvenor Garage in Worplesdon who imported a large number of GT-Fours, Supras and MR2's during the grey import boom a number of years ago. He restores old KTM motorbikes as a hobby so he know's what it's like trying to get hold of stuff.

This is a pic of what I've bought in the way of fasteners so far. More to come. Just don't ask how much they cost!

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Don
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1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:22 pm 
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Location: Portsmouth
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Wow that's a fair few bolts, stockpiling does seem to be the most sensible option. I was wondering if 3D printing or multi axis CNC milling might be the future of getting these specific Gt four only fixings. It would be a matter of taking measurements up the OE bolts and clips etc then modelling them in pro engineer or solid works, then simply having a digital library of parts that can be manufactured to meet demand, rather than having shelves stacked high with spares. Something to consider as Toyota starts discontinuing more and more parts. For example those pesky clips for the parcel shelf, could be printed at home, or just mill some new fig 8s whenever you need them. But I digress....

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:05 pm 
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Parts arrived Thursday, spent this morning dismantling and cleaning them. I plan to follow your lead Don and go the exact same route...And so it begins....

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:12 pm 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
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The subframe looks to be in quite reasonable condition, certainly better than the one that Mike was going to chuck in the skip but I rescued :twisted: Presumably you are going to get everything media blasted, zinc primed and powdercoated? Given that you will have to remove the OEM rubber bushes what are your plans? You going to go full polybush with the subframe or stick with the OEM rubber bushes? Bear in mind that you can't get replacement OEM rubber diff carrier bushes so if you remove the old bushes you will have to go with either the Polybush or stiffer BRD replacement bushes. You can't get the OEM rubber bushes for the trailing or track control arms either so again it's a choice of Polybush or BRD bushes.

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GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:27 am 
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In short, I plan for full polybushed. No desire to stick with difficult to source OEM bushes. I don't even consider it to really be a modification, just a cheaper and easier way of refurbishing the subframes etc. Vibration is nothing to me, I just want a firm back end ;)

Treatment terms, I plan to talk to the South Coast Workshop to arrange for media blasting and powder coating etc.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:23 pm 
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Making a DIFFerence, it was DIFFicult at times, but the base coat of cold galv spray is on after a clean up, will look at Hammerite, with some stone chip on top of that. Hope I'm not Hi jacking the thread, but seems like a relevant place to put these.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:02 am 
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Looking good! :)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:35 am 
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How are the oil seals on the output shafts? On mine they are full of rust debris and need to be replaced as you can feel them grinding when you rotate the drive flange. Your output shafts and drive flanges look very clean. I presume you didn't dismantle the diff when you cleaned it with the wire brush? Just wondering how you stopped the rust debris contaminating the seals. Did you tape them off?

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GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:39 pm 
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You are correct Don, I didn't dismantle or mask off anything other than the main casing seal. It still turns flawlessly now so fingers crossed it is ok. I will have the experts give it the once over before it goes on the car. I spoke to a few chaps on the OC as well and they recommended new seals etc, not sure if they are the same as the ones you are referring to?
on TCB they are called the following:

Rear Diff Propshaft Oil Seal (Input Shaft)-TCB

Diff to drive shaft seals x2-TCB

If those are correct, I plan to replace those Items anyway, just in terms of good practice.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:28 pm 
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Yep, those are the seals. I've given my diffs to Martin as it's a specialist job to set the pre-load up when you re-assemble them.

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Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:40 pm 
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Thanks Don I had no Idea it was as involved as that. So really buying the seals isn't much good if I can't simply fit them within a workshop environment. So I either bolt it on an hope for the best or I need to take it to a specialist? What is preloaded within the diff? I assumed it was just a bit of clockwork inside, so to speak.

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