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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:09 am 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
There's been a noticeable aroma of fuel recently inside the car but I wasn't sure if it was just the usual rich running in the OEM setup or something else. So to try to get to the bottom of the mystery I thought I'd give my ST205 a long run up to the Classic Car Show this weekend. As soon as I started the engine there was a very strong smell of fuel so I popped the bonnet to have a look. It didn't take long to spot the fuel soaked area and it was literally spraying fuel out of the rubber line to the injector rail.

Engine/Fuel pump off. You can see the split in the line here.
Image


Engine/Fuel pump on. Here the camera has 'frozen' the fuel as it sprays out the split line.
Image

I haven't yet removed the hose but does anybody know if it's a Dash or mm sized line? I'm not sure if standard fuel hose is ethanol proof or if I should order a nitrile type as a replacement. Any info/feedback welcome :)

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1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:29 pm 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
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I did a bit of research before purchasing a replacement fuel line. The original line was marked SAE J30 R6 SUITABLE FOR UNLEADED FUEL 5/16" It also was marked 2006 on the reverse side but I'm not sure if that refers to the year. I've owned the car since 2005 and it hasn't had a replacement hose in that time. The engine is not the original but fitted in late 2004 by the previous owner.

There are 4 significant groups of SAE codes:

1. Unmarked hose - will probably be for the original petrol formula, without modern additives (but see later comments).
2. SAE 30R6 - This is the standard for the petrol formula of 5 - 10 years ago, for fuel injection. The bore may or may not be lined with Nitrile.
3. SAE 30R7 - This is the standard for the petrol formula of 2 or 3 years ago, for fuel injection. The bore is lined with Nitrile. DIN 73379 is equivalent.
4. SAE 30R9 / SAE 30R10 - This is the current standard. The bore is lined with Fluoroelastomer/Nitrile. SAE 30R9 has Fluoroelastomer/Nitrile on the inside, while SAE 30R10 has it inside and out, which allows it to be used immersed in petrol (e.g. in a fuel tank).

There is also a marine grade for use in boats - ISO 7480 A1 - that is roughly equivalent to 30R7-and-a-bit, with added fire resistance.

I was only able to find SAE 30R9 on line. None of the local motor factors had heard of the higher spec and only a few stocked SAE 30R6 often in short fixed lengths. I need 1 metre. From what I have read the SAE 30R6 hose can tolerate small amounts of ethanol in fuel. It appears that most fuel has between 5% (e.g. Shell V-Power) and 10% (Tesco 99 Momentum). I try and stick to V-Power most of the time so I decided to use the SAE 30R6 as that was available at my local motor accessory shop. The Aeroquip Startlite SAE 30R9 nitrile line is around £25 per metre compared to the SAE 30R6 which was £4 per metre. My track car is fitted with nitrile hose as race fuel can be quite corrosive.

The slightly longer length of the new hose also meant I was able to get a more gentle radius on the bends which will hopefully mean it will last longer. The split in the old line occurred at a point where the hose was bent through an angle onto the fuel pressure regulator so that may have stressed it.

Anyway, it's good to have my Four running again now without being gassed by fuel vapour filling the interior :mrgreen:

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Don
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1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:40 pm 
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Good information, thanks for sharing.

I don't remember any significant bends on the standard fuel hose, pretty much straight from the banjo on to of the filter into the banjo on top of the fuel rail., I'm wondering if yours had been routed differently hence the split.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:55 am 
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The previous owner had Smithy fit a replacement engine just before I bought it in 2005 so I'm thinking that something was re-assembled slightly differently to the original layout. I might have a peek under Mike's hood at the weekend. I'm sure Martin would have put everything back the right way.

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Don
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1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:24 am 
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Location: drinking devil fuel
Car Model: ST205
The OEM hoses are also encased in thick rubber sleeves. Sounds like yours had new made up


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:20 pm 
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Really? What's the function of the thick rubber sleeves?

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Don
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1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:05 pm 
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I would hazard a guess it's added protection against chafing as it runs through a fairly crowded area and is unsupported.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:21 pm 
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Yep, on that basis I've run the new line with as much freedom as possible keeping the turns large radius to avoid stress. There was no sign of chafing on the old line. I'm pretty sure the failure was caused by looping it to a tight radius onto the end of the fuel rail. Over time this additional stress resulted in the line splitting.

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Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:06 am 
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The fitting on the end of the fuel rail is normally a banjo which can be set at any angle but is normally set straight towards the filter.

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If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:56 am 
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No duelling banjo's on my car Chris! Push-on fit secured by small jubilee clips. See pics below:


Image


Image

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Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:41 am 
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Is that the return from the far end then ?

I assumed it was the pressurised feed line to be squirting out.

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If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:07 pm 
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I assume it's the feed from the fuel tank. Didn't bother to check if there was fuel coming out of the hard line near the bulkhead as that would have been a bit messy. Is there a return line to the tank?

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Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:12 pm 
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Location: drinking devil fuel
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There's something very differently normal about that

The fuel return outlet should be rotated 90 degrees clockwise and IIRC there should be a really short hose from that to a hard line on the fuel rail.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:59 pm 
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Correct, the return from the top of the FPR (shown) should point back along the fuel rail towards it's destination. Normally it connects via a short hose to a fixed pipe which runs alongside the fuel rail and exits at the distributer end where it then connects to the tank pipe via a shortish hose.

I suspect the FPR has been fitted with a different sealing washer hence a different angle when tight.

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If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:57 pm 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
EPC Diagram of Fuel Injection System

Image

The fuel feed and return lines are clearly shown in these two pics below. The hose which I replaced (between the top of the regulator (Part No. 23280) and the hard line back to the tank) is missing from the pics. I'm still not sure of its function. Perhaps its an over-pressure relief of some sort?

Image

Image

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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