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 Post subject: Failed emissions test
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:03 am 
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Junior WRC

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:39 pm
Posts: 514
Location: Bournemouth
Car Model: ST205
got the following readings >

0.986 Lamda
CO%vol 1.44 << this is the one that failed (so I was told) 0.3 is the pass mark?
CO2%vol 13.5
O2%vol 0.73
HCppmHEX 118

I have no CAT, Its a Jap 1994 ST205.

The exhaust had a leak half way down where the join is (would this cause such a bad reading) Now fixed..
I also had a wideband (simulating a narrow band) plugged in. I have swapped it back over to the original
wideband as the end bit seems to poke into the exhaust flow more.

Anything else I should be aware of or do to make it pass.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:06 am
Posts: 4743
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
Errr, did you really expect your ST205 to pass the emissions test without a CAT? The only way to get it through would be to refit the CAT.

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1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:01 pm 
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Junior WRC

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:39 pm
Posts: 514
Location: Bournemouth
Car Model: ST205
It passed the last 2 mots without a cat.
Don't they run it on a no cat test or is that old hat now.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:06 am
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
It's only the ST185 that's eligible for the no CAT test. You must have been lucky to get through the MOT before without a CAT. Forgot to ask if you warmed the engine up before the emissions test as that makes a big difference to getting the emission readings down.

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Don
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1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:44 pm
Posts: 4067
Location: drinking devil fuel
Car Model: ST205
It looks like it was running pretty rich. The tailpipe reading would have been leaned out a bit by the leak so in reality it was worse than measured. Either not up to full operating temp or the NBSIM output from the wideband is a bit out of whack. Lambda should be 1ish (+-.03 if memory serves) with or without a cat.

Amazingly for a car of yours it's doesn't seem to be burning too much oil. Must have been rebuilt in the last 10 minutes :lol:

The whole cat thing is a minefield. My trusted tester has had the JDM cars in the database forever but he also keeps up to date with the latest test equipment. It might be that your garage has had a tech upgrade in the last year bringing your car into the fold. Either that or you forgot the packet of hobnobs left on the passenger seat


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:34 am 
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Location: Bournemouth
Car Model: None
It failed a cat test. A 1994 jdm is then entitled to a non cat test which it should pass.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:53 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:39 pm
Posts: 514
Location: Bournemouth
Car Model: ST205
Nibbles wrote:
It failed a cat test. A 1994 jdm is then entitled to a non cat test which it should pass.

I thought it was something like that. Will try and let them know on the retest. Was the reason because JDM versions did not have EGR or am I clouding the issue?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:00 am 
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Junior WRC

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:39 pm
Posts: 514
Location: Bournemouth
Car Model: ST205
Engine was rebuilt 3 years ago under nibbles supervision. I then suffered big end/crank problems a while later (my fault, low oil) I then reassembled 2 years ago with new shells and st202 crank. Piston rings were not replaced.... ( i remember asking on here if that was a good idea or not...) I think I got the story in the right order. Anyway, engine running REALLY smooth.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:44 pm
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Location: drinking devil fuel
Car Model: ST205
The 205 is clearly called out in the emissions manual. I can't really see any reason why it should be tested to pre-cat levels if it fails
In fact you could argue (not well mind) that the UK model is exempt with a JT164 vin code

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... dition.pdf

The whole system seems completely unclear though. Talk to different testers and you get different answers


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:39 pm
Posts: 514
Location: Bournemouth
Car Model: ST205
there is also this >>
Some passenger cars first used during the “transition” period (i.e. 1 August 1992 to 1
August 1995) and some light goods vehicles and large passenger cars first used on
or after 1 August 1994 were not required to be manufactured to the EC standards
requiring advanced emissions control systems to be fitted. For these vehicles the
non-catalyst test will be applied. Owners of vehicles which were first used during this
transition period, are advised to check the entries in the Annex to this booklet or
contact the vehicle manufacturer.

Ok, there are UK models but the Jap spec model did not have EGR so does it not fall in the above category?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:39 pm
Posts: 514
Location: Bournemouth
Car Model: ST205
I know I'm clutching at straws but in the VOSA manual, it says if car is pre august 95 and not listed in the annex, then NO cat test

annex:-
Model Code ST205 Engine Code 3S-GTE 2.0L From VIN No (last 7 digits) 0000001

My vin number is E-ST205-BLMVZ.......

E-ST205 is import and happens to not have EGR.
UK would say ST205, is this right?

There is no mention of imports being exempt (apart from the fact about cars not intended for the EC market....)
So, the wide topic being banded around of an import pre august 94 (or whatever the date was) being exempt comes from there not being a match for the engine code i.e.
E-ST205 is not listed, only ST205. E-ST05 being the non EGR version???(pure guess)

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Last edited by niblettr on Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:44 pm
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Location: drinking devil fuel
Car Model: ST205
Honestly I don't know Rob. I think this is where the conflicting opinions come from.

If I were a tester I would read that 205 entry as covering all models, be they JDM or UKDM, as it doesn't call out UK JT164 chassis codes specifically. However a tester could make a judgement call that a crossover period car without EC emissions kit could never be expected to pass and let it go.
I think both could be correct so it comes down to the tester on the day. The safe option for them is to fail it on a cat test :(


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:37 pm 
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Junior WRC

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:39 pm
Posts: 514
Location: Bournemouth
Car Model: ST205
Thanks Steve.
please re-read my last post I put (I edited it a bit) not that it changes anything..

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:39 pm
Posts: 514
Location: Bournemouth
Car Model: ST205
two_OH_five wrote:
Honestly I don't know Rob. I think this is where the conflicting opinions come from.

If I were a tester I would read that 205 entry as covering all models, be they JDM or UKDM, as it doesn't call out UK JT164 chassis codes specifically. However a tester could make a judgement call that a crossover period car without EC emissions kit could never be expected to pass and let it go.
I think both could be correct so it comes down to the tester on the day. The safe option for them is to fail it on a cat test :(


Maybe because there are other versions other than UK that have EGR so will need to be tested with cat? (and start with engine code ST205 obviously) Australian model? They are hot on emissions, no?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:39 pm
Posts: 514
Location: Bournemouth
Car Model: ST205
Gonna need more than a packet of Hobnobs to talk them round me thinks...

To recap :-

Car was no intended for EC market (no EGR, where the UK model has)
Model Code is not an exact match (because it is an import)
Car was manufactured during or just before the cross over period.
Packet of Hobnobs + something else...

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