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 Post subject: Re: Another project
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:33 pm 
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Group N
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Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:17 pm
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Location: Portsmouth
Car Model: ST205
That's a tidy example! Are you trying to collect he set I must admit I have a bit of a soft spot for the 185s. They are really starting to come of age as a classic now and anything with pop up lights is cool.

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 Post subject: Re: Another project
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:53 pm
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Location: Castleford, West Yorks
Car Model: None
replaced the turbo intake pipe but still not starting, seems to fire but doesnt ignite?

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 Post subject: Re: Another project
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:08 pm 
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Location: Castleford, West Yorks
Car Model: None
so new plugs and checked for a spark at the plugs which was fine
the car starts and runs for a couple of seconds before cutting out, I have bridged B+ and FP and can hear the pump running

It throws up codes;
22 water temp sensor signal
24 intake air temp sensor signal
32 air flow meter sensor signal
35 turbo pressure sensor signal
41 throttle position sensor signal
51 switch condition

what suggestions?

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 Post subject: Re: Another project
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:04 am 
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Group N
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Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:31 am
Posts: 332
Location: Wiltshire
Car Model: ST205
Not sure, but there have been a number of ECUs that have leaking capacitors due to the age. Worth opening it up and take a look.

Nibbles on here has fixed a few for people when he has the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Another project
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:36 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:53 pm
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Location: Castleford, West Yorks
Car Model: None
It will be worth a look
I should have picked up a spare ECU when I went over to Martins last Friday
Doh!!

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 Post subject: Re: Another project
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:14 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:54 pm
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1) I would check the ECU connectors are firmly in place.
2) reset ECU and see if they come back if not already done (I wonder if these are stored from ages ago and don't reflect the current situation??)


There are too many unrelated error codes IMHO for it to be sensor related. I assume the loom is actually connected to the engine LOL.

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 Post subject: Re: Another project
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:33 pm 
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Location: Castleford, West Yorks
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Ive had the battery out on numerous occasions and pulled the EFI fuse so I dont think there will be any codes stored from the past JP
Ill rummage around the ECU though

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 Post subject: Re: Another project
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:53 pm
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Location: Castleford, West Yorks
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So after a few pointers from MK such as trying with the EFM unplugged and bridging the fuel pump resistor it still wasnt running
I unplugged the ECU and was going to remove it to see if there was any signs of a dry joint or something iffy going on but decided against it as the easiest thing would be to try a spare from Martin
It crossed my mind that it might be an immobiliser problem so I took the bottom of the driver side dash off and had a look around, couldnt see any thing obvious loose or bodged other than the usual scotch blocks etc and I dont know enough about electrics to start removing alarms and immobilisers so I put it back together
I tried it a couple of times and after 3 attempts it started but was barely reving high enough to idle, I adjusted the throttle position sensor and it picked up the idle revs but then it cut out
I tried it again and it wouldnt start until I put the throttle position sensor back to the original position, this time I wound a bit of tension onto the throttle cable so it idles at 1000 rpm although it bounced around at 800 - 1000
I let it run till it got warm and shut it off and tried it again, it starts around one time in 5 attempts with the failed attempts usually being as before ie, starts but then stalls after a couple of seconds
I got it started again so I dropped it onto the drive from the stands and moved it a few feet in first and reverse and it "drove" fine
The pattern seems to be, starts but dies 3 or 4 times before eventually running
There is a lot of exhaust fumes and smells very petroly but the exhaust is blowing badly

What do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: Another project
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:06 am
Posts: 4739
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
Back to basics, if the spark is there then fuelling might be suspect. The fact it runs eventually seems to indicate the pump and injectors are working but maybe not properly? If it were me I'd go through the list of injectors, fuel pressure regulator. fuel pump, plugs etc. Helps to have some spares to try replacing components but you my not have that luxury?

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 Post subject: Re: Another project
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:28 pm 
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Group N

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:53 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Castleford, West Yorks
Car Model: None
Is the efi temp sensor the green connector ended one on the water elbow ?
cheers

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 Post subject: Re: Another project
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:52 pm 
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So it sounds like it is overfuelling massively and hence a bit of extra air from opening the throttle leans out the mixture enough for it to run?

I am certain someone already indicated this...... (but I can't see it)

If the vacuum is not present to the FPR it will not act as a rising rate and will overfuel at idle where it sees atmos pressure not full vacuum. The other option is that the feed for the FPR is pumbled in to one of the throttle body ports that is closed at idle (will read atmos pressure) and hence raising the throttle a little will open them up and help it to fuel correctly.

Have you stuck a manual boost gauge on the inlet plenum and/or FPR feed?

An immobiliser fault is unlikely to be the issue in this case (I have experienced a couple) and they normally suffer relay failure and hence you either get no ignition or starter or no fuel or a combination of both if twin circuit and it fails to activate either.

Can you stick up some under bonnet pics of all the bulkhead area etc so we can see the sensors?

Nibbles would be the ideal candidate to comment on the below....
I'll throw another idea in the hat; of the sensors that you have a fault code for...... are there any other sensors that need a 5V feed or share an earth? Most of the fault codes descriptions provided by Toyota suggest an open or short circuit. Would a lack of 5V feed from ECU to all sensors cause this or a lack of an earth or (I assume a short in the loom would not effect all?

I'd whip off the AFM and get the multimeter out to test if it is OK - if it is yet you still get a fault code then the other sensors are "probably" suffering a similar issue.

Have you got the Toyota/Chiltons manual to follow the test procedure?

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 Post subject: Re: Another project
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:13 pm
Posts: 3580
Location: Bournemouth
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I think all those sensors share an Earth that comes from the ECU (They do - E2).

I expect you have the BGB already, but just in case:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/831 ... 0ST185.pdf

Look at p637 for ECU circuit.

Worth a look at the ECU Earth under the inlet manifold in case it's come loose or had some wires broken. (It's an eyelet with loads of individual wires coming from it)

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 Post subject: Re: Another project
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:47 am 
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Group N

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:53 pm
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Location: Castleford, West Yorks
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Thank you JP and Nibbles, I ll try and take that in.
A bit for me to think about, try and work out and apply
Many thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Another project
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:06 pm 
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Group N

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:53 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Castleford, West Yorks
Car Model: None
Ive just had a look at that ECU circuit and test info.
I can bend metal, I can turn, shape and mill metal, I can paint stuff and I can work with fibre glass but............
electrics / electronics, nuhuh!!
Sorry I dont have the foggiest idea.

Ill have to resport to the old swap it for a good part approach and try and figure out where the fault is.
Ill take the photos JP as a vac pipe in the wrong place could be a culprit and ill also check the ecu earth Nibbles
Thanks for your help, much appreciated

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 Post subject: Re: Another project
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:53 am 
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Group N

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:53 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Castleford, West Yorks
Car Model: None
So, the rain let up for an hour yesterday
The car fired and ran for a few seconds 4 times out of 7 attempts, twice it didnt fire at all and on the 7th turn it fired and ran, I let it run for a couple of minutes then turned it off and tried it again. I took 2 or 3 attempts for it to start.
I whipped off the air intake pipe at the AFM so I could get to the sensors on the water elbow, all I can say is they look fine lol. I dont have a spare efi temp sensor so couldnt swap it out to see if it helped.
I swapped over a couple of the vac lines to the FPR and made it run slightly worse and when I tried to start it with them connected in different arrangements it wouldnt start so the original configuration as per the photos would appear to be the right one?
I could reach / feel / see any earth cables at the back of the manifold, is that best accessed from underneath?
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