No worries Kris.
Will be doing that to fit the leaking gasket IIRC.

Kris- afaik Only the 165 had an open diff...not sure what you mean by LSD?

Toyota UK speak of a Torsen rear diff on the 1990 ST185... key word being speak, meaning I have video Proof

_________________
Steve Gillies
ST-165 88 UK

www.GT4-Play.co.uk

agre with betsy
afaik the GT4 came with 2 types of diff

165 having open (ie non-slip diff) then the CS/205 (and depending on your source, various 185 spec) having the LSD/torsen diff which we all know and love).

heres the scenario as i understand it
165 = open diff
CS/RC/205 = LSD/Torsen aka limited slip diff
165 and certain variants of the 185 (early uk spec?) = open diff

you can tell the difference in back to back tests...when going around a sharp corner and giving it some, if it feels like the back end is tracking perfectly (ie the inside wheel turning relatively slowly) then its a lsd. the other way is to drop the diff, remove the top cover and take a pic. the single pic from the top of the diff, looking down on the worm gears, is enough to differentiate LSD from open type diff

_________________
Sprint ST165 aka "The 500BHP Sledgehammer" #6 in the Toyota Sprint Series. GT3071 1.9bar

Andy,

Your starting to get quite Geeeky in your old age!!

Good Stuff re diffs tho. I didn't know that.

_________________
Loosey
Loosey@gt4dc.co.uk
Storm Blue JDM ST205
Super White JDM ST205
http://www.gtfours.co.uk

Some people are like a Slinky .. Not really good for anything, but they make you smile when you shove them down the stairs!

As I understood things I thought:

165 - lsd
185 - lsd
185 CS/RC - Torsen
205 - Torsen

Where has the info come from to say that all 185s have a Torsen unit?

Think the Chilton manual shows that the 165 and 185 rear diff is not a Torsen see page 7-78, but it does mention on the bottom of page 7-73...

<snip>"the Celica was equipped with either the conventional or torque sensing limited slip differential.

One sure-fire way to differentiate between the two is to jack up the rear wheels with the transaxle in a gear. If the vehicle has the conventional type carrier, as one of the rear wheels is spun, the other will rotate the OTHER way (in reverse). If the vehicle has the torque sensing type, neither of the rear wheels will be easy and may be impossible to rotate"

I wait with baited breathe for some tests!

_________________
Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
_______________________________________
Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement

According to Brian Long's book 'Toyota Celica - 25 Years of Development and Motorsport'

'On October 1st 1986 the 4WD Toyota Celica was announced.... The GT-Four's centre differential guaranteed smooth running, and cut out many of the problems associated with 4WD cars at the time.......During August 1987 the GT-Four was given a new viscous coupling on the centre differential to make it safer during poor weather'

'Also new on the (fifth generation air to air intercooled (ATA) version of the ST185) GT-Four was a torque sensing limited-slip differential (LSD) for the rear axle. Distributing torque automatically through the use of two worm gears and six element gears, it gave the optimum amount of power to each wheel whatever the conditions.'

'The centre differential of the 4WD transmission (on the limited edition ST185 Carlos Sainz model) now incorporated a viscous coupling, and a torque sensing LSD continued to be used at the rear. Not only does this Torsen differential split torque left and right, but it makes it possible for accomplished drivers to control the torque split by using the throttle'

So if I read this right there is a difference between the ST185 and ST185CS is the viscous centre differential. The implication is that the ATA ST185 has a fixed 50:50 torque split front to rear. This would tie in with the fact that Toyota were initially using a mechanical centre diff on the early ST185 rally cars but found the handling unpredictable so changed to a viscous centre diff.

There is no indication in the book that any variant of the ST185 used anything other than a Torsen rear diff. Only the early ST165's used a non-LSD rear diff.

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

I have a Toyota video training video which was used for training the mechanics.
It shows the inside workings of the diff, explains how it works and uses the same discription that Don has used above

torque sensing limited-slip differential

_________________
Steve Gillies
ST-165 88 UK

www.GT4-Play.co.uk

I found this info for the Carlos Sainz version:

The centre differential of the 4WD transmission now incorporates a viscous coupling, and a torque sensing (Torsen) LSD continues to be used at the rear. This LSD consists of two worm gears and six worm gears with spur gears on them. These use gear friction to create bias and, with a higher bias than conventional LSDs, the time lag is shorter. Not only does the Torsen differential split torque left and right, but it makes it possible for accomplished drivers to control the torque split with adroit use of the accelerator.

Steve

Whoops. Sorry Don.....just noticed after re-reading your post you already mentioned this.

Best I get more accomplished with the throttle to use the diff more effectively.

SO - doe sthi smean all the people that have uprated their rear diff in their ST185 to a ST205 version have just carried out a direct swap asd the difference is in teh transfer box up the front?

_________________
JP
GT4DC Treasurer

Grey St185 RC
Silver BMW E46 M3
Multicolour yawn Honda VFR400
Silver Honda Civic Type-R

JP- Toyota called the 1990 rear diff a "Torque sensing LSD".. so I thought this meaned it was the very same as the ST15 c/s and st205?
They also said " The GT-four *NOW* comes with a torque sensing LSD"
The unit looks the same inside as the later models, with the 6 worm gears etc.

_________________
Steve Gillies
ST-165 88 UK

www.GT4-Play.co.uk