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 Post subject: Re: Project Arsey Blog
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:06 pm 
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TrackToyFour wrote:
Diceman wrote:
They don't however return to full extension of their own accord/are incredibly slow to do so. My experience with dampers suggests that they are typically pressurised to return to full height although I don't actually know what difference/why they are meant to do this or if all do.
I'd always assumed that dampers were meant to return to full height of their own accord after being compressed. A recent article in Racecar Engineer implies that this isn't always the case so I need to investigate further. I'd always assumed that the damper was knackered if it didn't return to full height. Maybe it's related to bump and rebound damper characteristics?

BTW I don't think you would go wrong fitting Bilstein inserts as they do have valving specs for the GT-Fours. Koni may have something but I've not heard of them used in GT-Fours.


Koni has developed adjustable inserts for the ST185 (I ran them in my 2nd black ST185 with Eibach springs on std housings.) They were pretty good and still available. The kit was offered by Whiteline back in the day but now even Fensport sell the front inserts.

I would prefer bilstein from the comments I have read but the cost is higher for purchase and they are non-adjustable (but built to your spec). Anything I have read suggests that adjustable bump/rebound shouldn't be needed and that there is 1 correct damper setting but I am happy to be educated.

It does seem that most dampers are nitrogen charged to pressurise them (which returns the rod to full extension) but some are purely oil filled and not pressurised. I have no idea what the Tein HAs are like from new.

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 Post subject: Re: Project Arsey Blog
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:38 pm 
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Hey,

I know its hard not to think of me as a role model but just because I don't currently have a car that can be legally driven on the road doesn't mean you should !

Cheers
Blackpot


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 Post subject: Re: Project Arsey Blog
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:42 pm 
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Is that 4 vehicles including the Portuglish Peugeot Mr Blackpot?

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 Post subject: Re: Project Arsey Blog
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:53 pm 
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Ah,
What am I thinking. The Renault is, of course, fully taxed, insured and tested. One out of four ain't bad :lol:

I haven't actually driven it for 2 months but I could if I wanted to!


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 Post subject: Re: Project Arsey Blog
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:13 pm 
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two_OH_five wrote:
The Renault is, of course, fully taxed, insured and tested.
Yes sir occifer, cough, cough, splutter...... A flock of pink piggies just flew by my window :lol: :twisted: :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Project Arsey Blog
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:22 pm 
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It is fully legal

I coughed up 30 euros for another years road tax in September and it had to have a years ticket from the government inspection centre to get it. Its done about 200KM since then as I did two airport runs :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Project Arsey Blog
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:33 pm 
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Location: Portsmouth
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Seen this car in the metal, certainly taking shape nowadays-have you still got that Boom system from day one of the build? I'm looking for some Ice, maybe not that much but certainly some bass assistance. The install did look rather tidy, especially the carpet work, but it seemed to take up a mad amount of space.

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 Post subject: Re: Project Arsey Blog
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:11 am 
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BecauseRaceCar wrote:
Seen this car in the metal, certainly taking shape nowadays-have you still got that Boom system from day one of the build? I'm looking for some Ice, maybe not that much but certainly some bass assistance. The install did look rather tidy, especially the carpet work, but it seemed to take up a mad amount of space.


He hasn't gone and put his electrostatic speakers in has he ?

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 Post subject: Re: Project Arsey Blog
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:32 am 
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LOL,
No, the car is totally without any hi-fi at present although it does have system 10 doorcards ready for some music. I have some Focal components and Alpine head unit I used in my old ST205 which will probably be pressed back into service.

The ICE Boom system was given to a friends son years ago!

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 Post subject: Re: Project Arsey Blog
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:23 pm 
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Quote:
The ICE Boom system was given to a friends son years ago!


Haha says it all really... The days when cars were mainly mobile discos covered in fibre glass are well behind us. Looking forward to further updates on this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Project Arsey Blog
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:03 pm 
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BecauseRaceCar wrote:
Quote:
The ICE Boom system was given to a friends son years ago!


Haha says it all really... The days when cars were mainly mobile discos covered in fibre glass are well behind us. Looking forward to further updates on this thread.


Not at my local Maccy D.

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 Post subject: Re: Project Arsey Blog
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:58 pm 
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So a little bit of an update and information dump.....

Firstly the Tein HA are gas pressurised according to the label on them!

Image
Diagnosis, they are shot and will need a rebuild. Whilst it may be possible to rebuild them with new seals and re-pressurise them they will be hard at 10KG/mm 6KG/mm front rear and all internet reports suggest that rebound damping is way too high on Tein and most japanese brand coil-overs with mainly linear characteristics and not digressive as bump speed increases. What does this mean? typically that they will be crashy when travelling slow and hitting bumps with little damping. Fine for a mirror flat track but far from ideal for a pot-holed road. The shock dynos I have seen suggest that they are a little more digressive when set to hard but then are likely to be over-damped. They are single adjustable so my understanding is that only rebound is adjustable and will then be set to "too flippin hard" and risk of jacking down.

Image
PS - it is suggested that the curves are upside down with bump and rebound reversed over typical shock dyno plots

Tein with what I believe is the range of lowering achievable for a given spring and the reccomended lowering
Image

NOTE:- The Spring code is written on the spring and indicates rate and length so the SB100-01200 is 10 kg/mm and 200mm long.


Analysis of shock dynos suggest that many race (track) only orientated coil-overs are valved linearly. Offerings from Ohlins, Bilstein and Koni can provide the desirable digressive curve for some road/bumpy surface use. IMHO I am seeking more of a tarmac rally spec suspension than circuit racing. Some of the costlier versions offer high and low speed adjustment, most budget coil-overs don't and regularly only offer 1-way adjustment that is more of a gimmick and doesn't actually provide the shame shape curves (linear or digressive) throughout the damping adjustment due to the simplicity of the internal valve.

Image

Valve A provides a linear curve. Valve B provides Digressive curves on both bump & rebound.

The more I am looking into this the more I am coming to the conclusion that budget coil-overs often contain inferior internal dampers than standard units!

This leaves me with 3 options at present as I see it...
1) convert my existing standard struts to height/preload adjustable by use of threaded collars and obtain adjustable Koni inserts that are known to fit and offer rebound adjustment but with digressive curves.
2) strip the teins, get them measured and use them as height/pre-load adjustable housings and seek out some adjustable inserts from Koni/Bilstein.
3) badger BC for more info on their inverted tube coilovers. (Easiest path but may put me in the same position I am in now)

At present the old Teins are being stripped of inserts and measured to determine which insert may fit.

Image

Thoughts or comments welcome.

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 Post subject: Re: Project Arsey Blog
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:00 pm 
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Position reserved for update on car in general later.

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 Post subject: Re: Project Arsey Blog
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:59 pm 
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So.... two steps forwards 1 step back.

Unfortunately on it's second voyage after MOT Arsey blew the seal on the water pump bearing and spewed it's coolant contents all over the engine bay. Clouds of steam, overheated instantly but I had to drive around 1 mile under very light load to stop as it was on a 60mph limit twisty road :-(

As such I am currently keeping my fingers crossed that the HG, block etc are OK.

The car has now been fitted with a new water pump, pulleys, cam belt and tensioner and is in the throws of being put back together to see if it's OK. The crank pulley put up quite a fight and my thumb lost.

I have sourced a Brembo GT series 4-pot with bells & rotors at 325x32mm off a low milage vehicle so they are currently being cleaned up, painted ready to be fitted.

Having spent the last few weeks reviewing suspension options I made a bit of a discovery today whilst measuring up for some coilovers and checking droop, wheel clearance at maximum compression and travel required. Whilst at it I pulled off the old front strut to fit a new top mount...

I found, green struts, a clean up and search for part number indicates they are part number 48510-STB91 front =

TRD RALLY, DIRT TRIAL
Front suspension:
Shock absorber 48510-STB91
Fixed rate Shell integrated type Twin tube gas 475mm L Max 330 L Min 3136N/1225N damping 460.6N compression force

A quick strut strip down indicates they are still good and just need a clean. Damping rates look spot on for my requirements and are stiffer than Bilstein inserts or KYB uprated struts. They are meant to be matched to TRD springs with a 4.2KG/mm front 3.2kg/mm rear and similar to the TRD Adjustable rates on the ST205. Let's hope the rears are also green and still good!

Unfortunately the springs are not so clever AVO lowering springs circa 40mm drop and despite looking right the front ones inspected are marked as rears! I can only imagine they were marked wrong at the factory as the rears will not fit the front!

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 Post subject: Re: Project Arsey Blog
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:01 pm 
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A quick update: - Rear struts are also green so it looks like it has the TRD Rally/Dirt shocks all round.

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