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New car - 4WD or Not
http://www.gt4dc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6875		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Sirius [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  New car - 4WD or Not
So I have been thinking about getting a new car recently to replace my aging BMW 118D.

My requirements are:

More powerful than the 120hp that the existing one has
Similar level of refinement, leather, climate etc
Preferably rear or 4WD
New or very nearly new for reliability

Having looked around at Merc's, Audi's, Toyota, Ford, VW, and BMW I have come to the conclusion that the most suitable car would be a more modern 1 series. I'm looking at the 120D M-Sport which comes with all the refinements and has 184hp and 280lbft torque. It's also got 5 doors and a reasonable load capacity, useful if little ones come along.

My real dilemma is they offer it in standard rear wheel drive and also in x-drive configuration which is a variable system based on a wet clutch. There isn't a massive price difference between them, the only slight downside is if you get the x-drive in msport trim apparently the msport suspension (10mm lower) isn't compatible so you get the standard 'sport' suspension.

Any thoughts? RWD or AWD? :)
Author:  Diceman [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New car - 4WD or Not
1 series....hmmm, IMHO is going to be too small unless you have a bigger car to transport any possible child guff in.

If you are looking at nearly new I would be looking at a 3 series or a better built and lower stressed merc c class.

My older gen 3 series is too small for anything above a weekend away and the civic is full with just a buggy (a small model on purpose) a big one wouldn't fit at all. If kids are a possibility at some point then the first 2 years of the first child (until you move onto a stroller) or any years for 2 or more children you will not have enough room. If u get a test drive you are welcome to bring it round for a luggage test!

Now to the important bit. My thoughts are rwd and winter tyres, don't carry the extra weight around all year long.
Author:  Sirius [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New car - 4WD or Not
Something to remember with the new 1 series is that with size creep it is only fractionally smaller than your E46, and I mean fractionally - the largest difference is 5cm.

Also the boot space IMO is a better shape for load carrying, its essentially a mini-estate car, with the parcel shelf removed you can get a surprising amount in even in my 1 older i series. I took a whole kitchen's worth of units broken down and a load of other junk to the tip once in mine and the new one is bigger.

Cheers for the opinion on the winter tyres, I have been considering that as well.
Author:  Diceman [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New car - 4WD or Not
It looks like the 1 series increases boot space from 330 to 360 litres as a result of the model update? Bigger than the Civic the other half has at 315 litres.

The e46 coupe is 410 litres with the saloon bigger at 440 litres. The cavernous boot of the old Mondeo I had was 500 litres. The newer E92 is 460 litres.

I take your point about the usability of the space as I regularly use the Civic to transport stuff to the tip as I just can't get it in the E46 coupe however....

1) the RWD or 4WD format reduces boot height and width normally due to the susension layout required.
2) IMHO space above the parcel shelf is only useful for transport of a single large item and I would never load above seat level without parcel shelf for a journey - in an impact or heavy braking I don't want to be whacked in the head by luggage.

If you are going for a small RWD or 4WD car you are sacrificing boot space and performance in snowy conditions in the RWD case. Also consider rear leg room as again The Civic is too small and with me in passenger seat and child seat/ child in rear I have to have my knees behind my ears to stop getting kicked in the back all journey and to make room for child.

I know you have commented how impressed you were that we both kept our 3-door, smallish sporty cars and didn't go and buy a baby bus but it isn't without major hassles. If I knew what I know now I would have bought a military spec hummer or possibly a M5! Nowadays I would have bought a Land rover defender v8 auto complete with built in "wet room" to easily mop up any vomit, urine, faeces or mulched grapes and give me a spare hand to throw more food in the little ones direction to shut the bugger up enough to concentrate on the road. My only alternative at present is to drive as fast as possible to shorten the journey time and scare her enough into silence. In fact a black cab with bullit proof separating glass screen and already covered in vomit etc is another alternative that is worth considering for a couple of years at least.

The other alternative is to buy an Elise and a 5-series x-drive dieseasel touring for Claire (the citroen synergie also looks almost identicle and a second favourite if you could push the boat out to a Tesla?) ;-) HTH










I agree with leather seats - vinyl would also be as easy to wipe clean.
Author:  Sirius [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New car - 4WD or Not
Looking at the 3 series an equivalent model is 5k more, that is more than I am prepared to spend, Merc's - I don't like them and stressed engines I'm not worried about as the thing will be under warranty.
Author:  Diceman [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New car - 4WD or Not
Fair points and if the 3-series is £5k more for same spec (and probably depreciates faster as a result of rep mobile volume sales) I can see your points.

One thing I did see today is "composite snow chains" by Michelin. Like snow chains but made of what looked like a Kevlar material.

As a back up and to get you out of trouble they are worth considering as a half way house.
Author:  Muddy Water [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New car - 4WD or Not
Skoda Fabia vRS or Octavia vRS :?:
http://www.skoda.co.uk
Author:  Sirius [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New car - 4WD or Not
Diceman wrote:
Fair points and if the 3-series is £5k more for same spec (and probably depreciates faster as a result of rep mobile volume sales) I can see your points.

One thing I did see today is "composite snow chains" by Michelin. Like snow chains but made of what looked like a Kevlar material.

As a back up and to get you out of trouble they are worth considering as a half way house.


Interesting on the snow chains thing, I already have some traction mat type things that I bought after the snow a couple of years ago. They are pretty good if you are stuck and can't move at all.
Author:  Sirius [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New car - 4WD or Not
Muddy Water wrote:
Skoda Fabia vRS or Octavia vRS :?:
http://www.skoda.co.uk


Unfortunately I'm too much of a snob, we already have one 'budget' brand car if we got another what would the neighbours think! :D
Author:  Nibbles [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New car - 4WD or Not
They'd be thinking how nice of you to buy the upmarket model with heated rear screen.
Author:  TrackToyFour [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New car - 4WD or Not
None of these have the WOW! factor for me. Necessary when I'm spending my hard earned. Had a good look around and the only candidates I'd consider have a four ring badge ;-)
Author:  Sirius [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New car - 4WD or Not
Really? I think the current crop of Audi's aren't really all that. Quite pricey and not as much for your money I have found.
Author:  two_OH_five [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New car - 4WD or Not
The general consensus on BMW forums is one kid requires an immediate trade of any 3 series (including estates) for an X5. Two requires something in the Mercedes Sprinter category. Presumably triplets requires dad to obtain an HGV articulated license pretty sharpish. It's chuffin unbelievable

I'd buy the BMW and use snow socks for the 2 day's a year they are needed down here. Although this is also in contravention of established E90 policy which mandates winter tyres from September to May as rear wheel drive cars are completely deadly in adverse conditions

Good lease/PCP options on C63 mercy at the moment apparently....or I know of an Aston that fits the financing :lol:
Author:  Diceman [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New car - 4WD or Not
I must admit to not liking the look of most BMWs although the recent generation is better than the last ;-) Despite all the tech specs I still don't think I could buy an ugly car or boring car. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder as the 1-series IMHO is the ugliest of the lot and yet I really like the Volvo C30 ;-) In fact if you are looking at nearly new as well a C30 D4 R-design would be high on my list to test drive. It breaks all your requirements but is a similar size!

The Audi seems to be similarly priced? A 120D M-sport or 120D X-drive Sport looks llike being around £26K plus options (leather and a couple of bits pushes it up to £28K??)
Can't say I would fancy an Audi although I have heard very good reports of the 1.4 TFSI from owners and horror stories from people in the trade!
Author:  Sirius [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New car - 4WD or Not
Audi appears to be at least 3k more expensive, that's for an equivalent specced A3 sportback.

I do agree on modern cars, none of them really float my boat, at least not the ones that I can afford.

But to be sensible I think I need to keep the fast / decent looking cars for hobby, I still have a strong desire for a V8 vantage that will have to be saited at some point.

Thanks for the thoughts folks.

JP - Volvo C30? You are strange! :)
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