www.gt4dc.co.uk
Maintain, Modify and DRIVE your GT-Four


It is currently Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:57 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:27 pm 
Offline
Group N

Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:29 am
Posts: 447
Location: Up North
Car Model: ST205
When the celica rebuild is finished I am thinking about designing and building my own car. I was going to go for one of the usual kit cars or car conversions. One that has caught me eye is by tribute automotive

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/s ... php?t=3908


It's a d- type jaguar based on a Triumph Spitfire.

The trouble is its all old technology and a somewhat dodgy, rusty car.......I love the d type jags but.......I also love the 1930s racing cars like a Bugatti t35s etc, I could never afford one, but I could make a similar shaped one using more modern equipment such as brakes, engines etc

Does anyone know of any helpful websites, forums, books etc o help me overcome the usual pitfalls.??

I was thinking of basing it on either a Supra engine or some sort of Jaguar straight 6 engine.

Is it worth putting in the effort?

Are there any similar out the box kit cars that are not too expensive?

nd you all thought this was a GT4 forum :D :d

Any advice would be great.

_________________
ST205


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:19 pm 
Offline
Club Staff
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:06 am
Posts: 4743
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
I think Mike looked into this in some detail and even started assembling parts before he ended up buying a secondhand Westfield. One of the guys on here I think built a Locost but he hasn't posted in a while. I've often been tempted myself but for the time and money I would probably go for a GT40 replica as you'd be more likely to be able to sell it if your circumstances change. Former GT-Four owner Chris Mann built a Gardner Douglas Lola T70 Spyder replica proving it can be done.

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:25 am 
Offline
Club Staff
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:54 pm
Posts: 3478
Location: On Top
Car Model: None
I like the idea of a kit car, having built it yourself you will know it inside out and have the opportunity to tweak it to your requirements. What I really don't like is the use of old car parts, use of old hubs/gearboxes/diffs I can understand but the chassis/body and engine should be new or near new in my opinion. Trying to fix up an old spitfire (not the best starting point!) to create a D-type replica means you have built something that is worse than an original despite 50 years of vehicle evolution.

Building a d-type looking car on a new chassis with a recent jag straight 6 (supercharged??), discs, IRS etc would make much more sense IMHO but then the costs start to spiral out of control.

I seriously considered doing something like this a few years back but came to the conclusion that an MGB sebring replica with modern discs, suspension and V8 engine could be built for similar money using new and off the shelf body, and suspension/engine parts (excluding a donor for niff-naff & trivia).
Image

My interest has passed in the set your pants on fire seven replica type vehicles due to safety and the cost of track days nowadays so a fast GT with classic looks and a burbling V8 ticked all my boxes ;-)

_________________
JP
GT4DC Treasurer

Grey St185 RC
Silver BMW E46 M3
Multicolour yawn Honda VFR400
Silver Honda Civic Type-R


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:41 pm 
Offline
Club Staff
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:06 am
Posts: 4743
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
Works for me! Saw a Supra engined Datsun 240Z at Combe last year. Looked like it would be great fun and keeps the Toyota link :)

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:23 pm 
Offline
Club Staff
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:44 pm
Posts: 4067
Location: drinking devil fuel
Car Model: ST205
Anyone prepared to build a kit that uses trunions should be prevented from creating anything capable of self propelled movement IMO - I've been scarred for life by a wheel falling off moment a friend suffered in his spit

I imagine Rodney would have lots of input to make on the subject

JP, RV8?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:18 am 
Offline
Club Staff
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:14 am
Posts: 3239
Location: Camberley, Surrey
Car Model: ST205
Hi there,

I have a few pointers having looked into this alot and owning a Westfield for a couple of years.

Main point is that with a kit it will cost you way more to build than to buy something already finished. The spec of my Westfield would have cost me about £18k to build - I picked it up 2nd hand (factory built) 7 years old with 15k miles on it for £8k.

You also need to consider your skill set - some kits like the Westfield need nothing more than an average toolkit and skills to assemble, other more niche ones require welding skills etc.

A really useful website is http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk - there is lots of scratch built stuff on here.

If you are talking about scratch building something that is a whole new ball game and has many many problems associated with it. My brother in law (the above mentioned Rodney) is building a Costin Roadster from scratch. This is a car designed by Frank Costin (brother of Mike Costin of Cosworth) the problem is the car never made it into production all that exists is drawings, a spaceframe prototype and one beta test car. Through contact with various people he has managed to get hold off a part finished chassis and one of only 3 sets of bodywork that were ever made. Some of the big hurdles he has had to cross so far include:

Welding additional tubes into the chassis to properly triangulate it
Working out where the engine is going to sit exactly in the chassis and fabricating engine mounts to suit
Having a windscreen made (not cheap!)
Working out all the suspension geometry (not easy!)
How to package the exhaust to pass IVA test in a mid engined car
How to mount the body onto the chassis

I could go on and on, his project has been running about 5 years now and he is just at the stage where he has a rolling chassis, granted his funds are limited but lots of the stuff at the moment is design and fabrication, the expensive bits are yet to come.

If I were in your position I'd get hold of a couple of kitcar magazines and get along to a few shows and see what's what.

For what its worth I sold my Westfield as it was too impractical - now I know you would think - of course its impractical - but however much so you 'think' it is - its worse. Something like that would make a great 3rd car - but not a 2nd IMO.

Good luck if you do decide to start a project! :)

_________________
GT4DC Events Co-ordinator
1996 ST205 UK


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:56 am 
Offline
Junior WRC

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 595
Location: Knoxville, TN USA
Car Model: None
I ran across on of those MGs about 12 years ago for sale on the side of the road. Did not know much about the car or how to take care of it at the time, but it was cool looking. I always assumed it was the inspiration for the BMW M Clownshoe.

Regardless, that would be a cool looking car to work into something modern.
Image

_________________
Coldiron (Cold - Iron)
1992 Celica Gt4 RC Conv. St205 swap
Image
http://www.noritoy.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:14 am 
Offline
Club Staff
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:54 pm
Posts: 3478
Location: On Top
Car Model: None
Steve, I thought the Rodney reference was a 3 wheeler del boy crack!

the mg rv8 IMHO is a bit of a dog. They tried to make it look modern with a classic twist and still used the old v8! Totally the opposite of what I would like to do. Old classic looks with a modern v8 and running gear. They are pretty light so massive power is not needed but 250-300bhp would be spritely I suspect. I think the aim is akin to a better classic looking tvr that is put together better!

I would also like an old swb 911 but with a modern 3.8 flat six but that would be a megabucks project and remove any value of the original vehicle and I'd still have to deal with tin worm etc.

_________________
JP
GT4DC Treasurer

Grey St185 RC
Silver BMW E46 M3
Multicolour yawn Honda VFR400
Silver Honda Civic Type-R


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:22 am 
Offline
Club Staff
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:54 pm
Posts: 3478
Location: On Top
Car Model: None
cms-gt4 wrote:
I ran across on of those MGs about 12 years ago for sale on the side of the road. Did not know much about the car or how to take care of it at the time, but it was cool looking. I always assumed it was the inspiration for the BMW M Clownshoe.

Regardless, that would be a cool looking car to work into something modern.
Image


An original Sebring will be megabucks if any still exist.

The one you have pictured is a replica, basically a standard mgb gt with flared arches and no bumpers. In particular the one you pictured is a late spec rubber bumper car judging by the "BL" badge and hence has little value but ideal as a basis for bastardisation. As standard they had a 1.8 4 pot b-series engine that when new was suggested to put out 90 bhp without a catalytic converter (USA model was less) so hardly quick. They did do a rover v8 3.5 version (ex buick v8) with 135bhp that was marginally quicker but still slow by modern standards. The main attraction is that you can buy brand new body shells for not silly money.

_________________
JP
GT4DC Treasurer

Grey St185 RC
Silver BMW E46 M3
Multicolour yawn Honda VFR400
Silver Honda Civic Type-R


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:30 am 
Offline
Club Staff
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:54 pm
Posts: 3478
Location: On Top
Car Model: None
I see there is already a d-type replica kit car with ladder chassis and accommodates decent running gear
http://www.realmengineering.com/LR%20RA ... -09-09.PDF

I assume that this misses the point of the op?

_________________
JP
GT4DC Treasurer

Grey St185 RC
Silver BMW E46 M3
Multicolour yawn Honda VFR400
Silver Honda Civic Type-R


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:55 pm 
Offline
Junior WRC

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 595
Location: Knoxville, TN USA
Car Model: None
Diceman wrote:

An original Sebring will be megabucks if any still exist.

The one you have pictured is a replica, basically a standard mgb gt with flared arches and no bumpers. In particular the one you pictured is a late spec rubber bumper car judging by the "BL" badge and hence has little value but ideal as a basis for bastardisation. As standard they had a 1.8 4 pot b-series engine that when new was suggested to put out 90 bhp without a catalytic converter (USA model was less) so hardly quick. They did do a rover v8 3.5 version (ex buick v8) with 135bhp that was marginally quicker but still slow by modern standards. The main attraction is that you can buy brand new body shells for not silly money.


Thanks for the info. I passed on this and an Lancia integrale at the time because I had no idea how I would find parts. Keep in mind this was at the turn of 2000 so there were not as many international online vendors at the time.
Knowing now that this was not an original car, I wonder if they were asking too much. MGs are fairly rare here in the states, so maybe that was the reason for their price point.

_________________
Coldiron (Cold - Iron)
1992 Celica Gt4 RC Conv. St205 swap
Image
http://www.noritoy.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:09 pm 
Offline
Group N

Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:29 am
Posts: 447
Location: Up North
Car Model: ST205
Diceman wrote:
I see there is already a d-type replica kit car with ladder chassis and accommodates decent running gear
http://www.realmengineering.com/LR%20RA ... -09-09.PDF

I assume that this misses the point of the op?


That's not a bad looking kit, would certainly require some saving up.

Not really sure what I want to do really, I think designing from scratch will be way too much, a half finished project would always make me thing......I wonder what they have done?.......I have a deep routed soft spot for a d type jag so that kit looks ideal, much better than the spitfire option.

Just need to get the Celica finished first.

Many thanks to all for the input so far, it has been very informative and useful. Cheers guys :)

_________________
ST205


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:29 pm 
Offline
Club Staff
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:44 pm
Posts: 4067
Location: drinking devil fuel
Car Model: ST205
Random thought

Rusty old Shaguar XJS
+
Space frame
+
Bent tin
=
XJ13
IMO one of the most beautiful cars ever not built

Build it, they will come!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group