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 Post subject: Re: 2009
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 11:47 am 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Maybe you're not driving fast enough Edd! :twisted: :lol:

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1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2012 Van Diemen JL12 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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 Post subject: Re: 2009
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 12:30 pm 
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Quite possibly, I will try harder next time!

Seriously though I have tested this for several years and they don't move under load. If you have the time and money then custom suspension arms or cutting and adjusting the suspension turrets is a good option for sure, but if you don't then slotting the struts is an easy option. Bare in mind adjustable suspension arms have also been known to fail quite commonly. If your seriously concerned about safety then I guess adjusting the strut tops is the best idea to allow full use of camber plates.

Consider this - camber plates are only held in place to prevent sliding by 4 small Allen screws and this is acceptable, the suspension leg is held to the hub by 2 dirty great big bolts which would have a huge amount more clamping force.

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Now back home and mapped to 531bhp & 411lb/ft - that's enough power for now! :D


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 Post subject: Re: 2009
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 10:50 pm 
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I don't disagree with your real world experience in the slightest Edd. At the same time, personally on a full race type setup I would feel more comfortable with the additional security offered by a "proper" cam/lock setup.
I was acutely aware of the huge increase in corner speed when bolting on cut slick type rubber and the corresponding huge reduction in things ending well in the event of a mechanical or talent failure. Push the envelope even further with full slick rubber and I wouldn't want to be approaching a corner wondering if I'd done the bolts up tight enough - it's bad enough trying to remember which way the track goes with your eyes shut :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 2009
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:35 am 
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Interesting input. Thank you all. ;)
Have gone with slotting the original holes and using the original toyota bolts.

The whiteline camber bolts could only be torqued to 70 nm but rely on a serrated washer with positive lock tab to stop any movement. The original toyota bolts torque specs are 220+ nm and rely on just clamp.

Was thinking of replacing them with 12.9 cap screws and washers to clamp more area but they have similar torque settings and would end up sharing the torsional clamp over a bigger surface area so a worse option than oem bolts :/

For now will run as is and modify/improve at a later date if needs be.

Got around to torquing all the subframe and suspension bolts.
Made some duct work for the radiator and oil cooler and mounted the intercooler. I have fitted the oil coolers where they are as radiator is a twin pass version so only hotter side of the radiator is being cooled with warmer air from oil coolers than the rest of the radiators. Duct work works so well. The air is sucked hard all the way from the front of theintercooler.
Some pics missing of the lower cooler brackets and the duct/rad divider but you get the idea.

Also changed turbo water feed and return lines from an4 to an6.
Fuel cell is in and top plate and inspectio. Plate is made too but still need to make a collector box and add foam....

Image
Image
Note duct on side of rad to direct air from intercooler
ImageImageneed to shave more metal here for oil cooler lines.
ImageImageImage


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 Post subject: Re: 2009
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:18 am 
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Very nicely done! The intercooler ductwork is something I need to do on mine, although I am planning on customising my bumper first to improve ducting of air and remove unrequired openings to help control airflow. Lovely work.

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GT4 no 10 - I must be mad :help:
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^^^Click the banner for my Black Treacle project thread ^^^

Now back home and mapped to 531bhp & 411lb/ft - that's enough power for now! :D


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 Post subject: Re: 2009
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:18 am 
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I like the tank, does it protrude far below the floor? What dimensions and volume is it?

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^^^Click the banner for my Black Treacle project thread ^^^

Now back home and mapped to 531bhp & 411lb/ft - that's enough power for now! :D


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 Post subject: Re: 2009
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:25 pm
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Cheers fella. See your wide arches on Facebook. Looks ace[CLAPPING HANDS SIGN]

Sits 20cm below the boot floor overall dimensions off the top of my head are 72 cm long 37 deep 32 high. Just under 80 litres. I imagine on track will probably use that in about an hour maybe less lol.

Still yet to make intercooler to bumper duct but that will be once I decide whether to use this bumper


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 Post subject: Re: 2009
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:07 pm 
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80L, never seen someone install a tank larger than stock before! But then it will give you lots of time on track and also be good for long journeys if you are going to drive it on the road.

Was the tank custom made to your spec or off the shelf? Do you have any pics underneith?

Yeah the wide wings are looking great, just need to move onto the rear overfenders now, fingers crossed that will also work out to plan.

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GT4 no 10 - I must be mad :help:
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^^^Click the banner for my Black Treacle project thread ^^^

Now back home and mapped to 531bhp & 411lb/ft - that's enough power for now! :D


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 Post subject: Re: 2009
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:54 pm 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
I presume the floorpan has been cut out to accommodate the tank?

Some of the race series regulations state you need to retain the original floor. This was one of the reasons why I put my tank in front of the rear axle where the rear seat used to be.

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Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2012 Van Diemen JL12 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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 Post subject: Re: 2009
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:44 pm 
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Don, what are your feelings on the tank positioning from a balance point of view? I originally planned to sink a tank in the floor a bit like Ali's, but then decided going for a tank on the back seat like yours would be better as it frees up space for a proper diffuser and leaves space available for a rear mounted rad should I ever decide to go down that road.

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GT4 no 10 - I must be mad :help:
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^^^Click the banner for my Black Treacle project thread ^^^

Now back home and mapped to 531bhp & 411lb/ft - that's enough power for now! :D


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 Post subject: Re: 2009
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:35 pm 
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Tracktoy Floorpan has been cut, I did read that a while ago about not being able to compete in most race regs because of this. Still won't stop me from the odd hill climb or even the odd time attack event :) The car will never be as competitive as one would hope as there's always am evo with deeper pockets, or more talented driver.

Image

Treacle I can still run a proper diffuser with this sunk in as it doesn't sit as low as you think. Ideal diffuser angle range between 7 to 10 degrees sometimes even more if stacked on top of another. If I do get around to a diffuser it will be on the shallower angle than the more extreme ones I've seen only to stop the number acting as a parachute.
Talking of flat floors I think a proper splitter (like Dons) with some sort of dam is more where improvements need to be made as there is plenty of downforce at the rear with the oem wing.
Just out of interest what do you plan to do with your car Treacle?


Last edited by ali86 on Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2009
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:22 pm 
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Ali, I completely agree that the front is where the downforce needs to be added, but believe it or not one of the main reasons for a rear diffuser is to create downforce on the front splitter. In a way the rear diffuser effectively powers the front splitter.

As for my car I am aiming to turn it much more track dedicated now, my target is to compete in time attack next season if I can get the car developed enough to be competitive in the club 4wd class. I'm not expecting to be near the front of the field, but would just like to give myself a chance at not getting too embarrassed.

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GT4 no 10 - I must be mad :help:
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^^^Click the banner for my Black Treacle project thread ^^^

Now back home and mapped to 531bhp & 411lb/ft - that's enough power for now! :D


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 Post subject: Re: 2009
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:09 am 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
Car Model: ST205
Edd, regarding your question on balance of the car with the tank mounted in the rear seat position it should mean there is a lower polar moment of inertia. Also, compared to the boot mounted location the weight will be lower so the centre of gravity will be lower. In plain English the combined effect should result in the car being more nimble on the twisty roads making changing direction much easier. Conversely weight mounted relatively high and behind the rear axle will make the car more likely to 'pendulum' and hence slower round the tighter corners.

All theory of course and the ultimate test will be on track. I am expecting to have to adjust and change a few things. I haven't worried too much about fitting a rear diffuser at this stage as the air under the car is going to be pretty 'dirty' with prop shafts, exhausts etc. I will be relying on the rear wing to balance the front splitter aero during the initial running of the car. Hopefully it will be OK. Future development will be aimed at tidying up the underfloor so it is as flat as possible. The pic below shows how JRM have cleaned up the underside of the Nissan R35 GT3 car with a flat floor.

Image

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Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2012 Van Diemen JL12 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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 Post subject: Re: 2009
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:31 am
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Location: Wiltshire
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Well, that really helped the aerodynamics :D

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[color=#000080]ST205 WRC 1994
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 Post subject: Re: 2009
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:41 pm 
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NoGT4 wrote:
Well, that really helped the aerodynamics :D

'Flugplatz' at the 'Ring living up to its name :( If you get enough air under a flat floor it's going to end badly however hard the Adrian Newey's of this world work in the windtunnel

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Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2012 Van Diemen JL12 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp


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