It's not a pfc pro is it?

Hi two_OH_five,

No, it is an Apexi Power FC ST205 version off my son's car that is in sick bay at the moment.

I had it re-mapped on my car but for whatever reason it didn't get the expected BHP?

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[color=#000080]ST205 WRC 1994
Hybrid turbo
Apexi AVC-R
Apexi Power FC (Not being used ATM)
Apexi Power commander (Not being used ATM)

Is it a real AP Engineering model do you know (AP Engineering sticker on the case)

The reason I ask is that the symptoms **could** be a side effect of the anti-lag feature only available on the pro version. Unlikely but it would be one option

From the description this happens this problem manifests all over the map - high rpm, low rpm etc etc - so it's not just a hole in the map it's a systemic issue

There's plenty of other options that can cause this - there's any amount of injector corretion vs TPS position BUT you have to have two settings fubar in order to effect timing (inlet backfire) and lean condition (low injector duty)

It really really needs logging to dissect the problem. I've got a feeling ultimately t's going to be an odd hardware issue.

Just for giggles can you still swap the OEM Toyota ecu back in to make sure that runs OK?

Hmmm,
I have only had a chance to have a brief look at the maps - steve email on its way as I don't have access to any of my old maps until I get home from work.

The main thing that I noticed are
1) Fuel cut on over-run (decel fuel cut or whatever you want to call it!) is set to switch injectors back on at 3200rpm - normally this is about 900-1600rpm or totally switched off with a high RPM figure the same as rev limit.

2) the timing is retarded at high boost low rpm more than normal with some cells (that you are unlikely to typically reach) at 0 degrees.

I really can't get my head around why the TPS was adjusted - I am with Steve on this that I suspect an underlying issue with sensors/hardware is the root of the initial problems and the TPS adjustment was a "workaround"

Phil - can you resend Dans map for some reason it is 5MB and should only be about 5kB!

_________________
JP
GT4DC Treasurer

Grey St185 RC
Silver BMW E46 M3
Multicolour yawn Honda VFR400
Silver Honda Civic Type-R

I have resent Dan's map, strange as to why it was so big? It is 10k on the USB stick.

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[color=#000080]ST205 WRC 1994
Hybrid turbo
Apexi AVC-R
Apexi Power FC (Not being used ATM)
Apexi Power commander (Not being used ATM)

That works

What are the differences between Dans car & your car engine wise?

_________________
JP
GT4DC Treasurer

Grey St185 RC
Silver BMW E46 M3
Multicolour yawn Honda VFR400
Silver Honda Civic Type-R

d.p.

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If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.

Mainly just higher fuel pressure on Dans and FMIC.

I don't see anything in those maps that would cause what we were seeing. I suspect it's more likely an auxillary setting.

_________________
If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.

None of the Anti-lag is or external switching is setup so it is not that.

Oddly Dans doesn't have O2 feedback enabled whereas Phils does (as is normal for a road based car).

There are some unusual changes such as Dwell times at 2K to 4K are marginally increased.

Additionally there is some changes to the acceleration enrichment settings but these appear to be more in keeping with the extra fuel pressure. And there is not a reverse of accel enrichment before you ask

I can't help but thinking the fuel map looks very odd. A couple of things sprang to mind after considering the low power yet high duty cycle of injectors and weakish fuelling. Is the FPR plumbed in correct to still act as rising rate and correcting for manifold pressure (I know the engine has been out for a rebuild so wondered). Is the throttle plate opening fully when pedal is to the metal and the thing is to the floor?

It needs AFR monitoring IMHO.

_________________
JP
GT4DC Treasurer

Grey St185 RC
Silver BMW E46 M3
Multicolour yawn Honda VFR400
Silver Honda Civic Type-R

Ah yes..... Cam timing was the other thing - strange torque curve.

_________________
JP
GT4DC Treasurer

Grey St185 RC
Silver BMW E46 M3
Multicolour yawn Honda VFR400
Silver Honda Civic Type-R

My puter is having a bit of a man flue incident so I can't fire up fc-edit at the no

By eye that fuel maps looks OK but erratic. The curves are about what I would expect but there is quite variable consistency between cells. If you look vertically from a cell you can see that on some cells the inj % is rising on a load line but on adjacent load lines the inj % is falling
This might account for the awful AFR trace (IMO I must add) which looks Himalayan to me. I guess this is probably to be expected from a cheapo map rather than something hand optimised over many runs

But I don't see anything amiss significantly in the maps but at the no, like JP I'm missing my reference data

Going back to the dynl plots its not happy. The plots too me look about the right shape but possibly torque is tailing off a little early

I think I might revise my guess to a breathing problem being the cause of low power but still don't see a link to the current Skippy performance

Currently working on giving the laptop a dose of defcon 0 strength Lemsip, hope to be back to normal soon

Looking at FC edit, am I right in thinking there are 2 maps for fuel - a base map (shown above) then a second map (inj. map above) is multiplied. The 'injector map' is 1.00 over the lower pressure bit then starts going up. Maybe this is why the above map looks a little strange.

Looking at the dyno plot of the car on the standard ecu, the torque curve is much flatter as I'd expect. The only work done apart from fitting the PFC was a replacement exhaust flexi was fitted.

_________________
If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.

The above map has been converted to be "base map x INj Map" which essentially gives you the raw injector squirt times.

_________________
JP
GT4DC Treasurer

Grey St185 RC
Silver BMW E46 M3
Multicolour yawn Honda VFR400
Silver Honda Civic Type-R

The way I comprehend it best is think of the INJ map as target AFR and the base map as a VE map.
So you plumb in your desired fuel map on the INJ tab and tweak the base map until the actual real world measured AFR matches the target. Then if you want to change the fuel map you only need to tweak the INJ map again to get pretty close results

If you want to look at final fuelling open the base map tan and select Base x ING from the dropdown, bottom right
What I do see on Dan's map is that all of the cruise load sites are mapped to stoich. This could be the cause. When you come off the pedal from any normal town type driving the ECU will immediately try to go closed loop. Since there will be some delay in getting real measurements back from the wideband it might make the ECU shut down fuel briefly

The problem is Phils map. Dans map felt fine in Dans car, Dans ECU was then fitted to Phils car (as it's 205 specific and Dan has a FMIC) and remapped and is now having these problems.

Appologies for my ignorance of PFC's , I'm just looking at settings and guessing what they do rather than knowing from experience.

_________________
If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.