Hi Diceman,

ok got it, then he should choose a FMIC setup

but better is a myth...

let me tell you a story in short
it's about a friend from denmark, i think you could know them

1st he used a TTE Group A Spec setup
2nd he used a HKS type S & R FMIC, with higher themps and more turbo-lag
3rd he went back to the TTE system, lower intake air themp. and 400rpm less lag

good and bad is relative, it's about the application and package

greetz

_________________
KEEP COOL UNDER PRESSURE

street legal?.....perhaps in tschibuti

TTE setup uses different components to standard. CC is bigger. Not sure about pump or pre-rad. Will certainly be better overall than standard.

On the FMIC, what pipe routing and size ? was the pipe lagged ? Was the application low speed / high power & if so was the FMIC in a good airstream from fans ?

_________________
If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.

Hi,

correct, the TTE setup ist very different

- CC is around 1cm higher, with 9rows of fins in it iirc
- swirlpot
- stronger pump
- uprated pre-rad

is definitely better then standard

i doesnt know his FMIC system as i never saw picture, here you can get more infos

http://www.gtfour.dk/news.php
http://www.street-performance.dk/defaul ... geID=77258
http://www.gtfour.ch/forum/thread.php?t ... =3066&sid=

greetz

_________________
KEEP COOL UNDER PRESSURE

street legal?.....perhaps in tschibuti

It is very hard to believe that a TMIC would provide lower temperatures that a FMIC...

The cooling provided by a FMIC is far superior that a WTA setup... and when you start thinking about it:

WTA IC - 2 built in inefficiencies as there are 2 heat exchage processes. 1 - heat exchange for intake air. 2 - Heat exchage for water radiator

FMIC - 1 heat exchange process, that is provided usually from a MUCH larger surface area

_________________
Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
_______________________________________
Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement

The exchange between air and metal surface will be the main inefficiency. Water conducts very well & moving water will be prtetty much the same temp as the metal.
If you analyse the 2 systems further -

FMIC - exchange charge to metal then exchange metal to air.

WCIC - as FMIC plus 2 lots of exchange metal to water.

The main advantages of FMIC are that they remove a lot of intake area from the hot position above the engine, plus as said are generally larger exchange areas than the standard system.

I'm still trying to make a water cooled 205 setup work on my 185, but sometimes I feel I'm fighting a losing battle.

_________________
If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.

When I fitted a fmic to my 205 the charge temps plummeted in just about every situation. I am only using a Fleabay cheapy too and there is loads of room for improvement to the end tanks (another project ) but that will help flow but make little difference to cooling I feel.

Chris uses his car for a lot of comparatively slow speed high boost situations which is unusual for a four. 4X4's that do this during off road excursions usually have a big fan on the interwarmer to try and keep some flow at slow speeds. I just don't see a top mount water filed box competing with a FMIC in most other situations! TTE or not!

Hi,

i agree, a WTA setup has a lower efficiency becouse of 2 heat exchange process, but with WTA you have to fill less death volume (spool up is better), you have less pressure loss becouse of short ways from turbo to throttle body (the turbo must work less to arrive his max. boost, so the IC must cool down less heat)

i read some tecnical books about intercooling and turbos, and think long about ATA and WTA, my favourtited system is definitly WTA

Kris, you can ask tommy direct, write a mail to gtfour.dk, i'am sure he will gave you all answers you want

Chris-de-Bear, you fight not a losing battle

greetz

_________________
KEEP COOL UNDER PRESSURE

street legal?.....perhaps in tschibuti

Sunny - thanks for the info

I found no difference in spool up time for the turbo... one thing I did notice that there was more torque with a FMIC whilst waiting for the turbo to spool up... no figures, just the usual butt dyno

_________________
Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
_______________________________________
Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement