i like the dutch one as it wont create huge problems with the sump pan, ive got my eye on the us one but i would rather go dutch

I agree, Dutch looks good!

Unfortunately I wasn't able to glean to much useful information using Babelfish Even allowing for the grammar it didn't make much sense

Rene, any chance you could find out more about this? Would be good to know if they would be able to manufacture a few more?

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

i can get the guy who's carlos sainz ive got here from luxembourgh to translate it if need be

Wouldnt the US girdle require somewhat massive redesigning of the sump to get it on with the extra depth required?

I like the look of the US one since this is bracing both the block and the crank and tieing it all nicely together. This imho should help strengthen and help prevent the block from distorting

The Dutch one is bracing the mains caps and whilst they are connected together I would question the useful ness of this design since there could be significant movement due to the design i.e. it's not cross braced like the US jobbie

_________________
Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
_______________________________________
Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement

my trouble with the American design is every vibration from the engine, transmission, exhaust etc will be transfered onto the crank with a direct connection, the dutch one will tie in the main bearing caps without transmitting extra vibrations

I don't see that?

As I see it this bit of kit is really a stronger sump that happens to pick up on the mains caps?

After all the whole lot of this is all connected together by the block, which should be solid? Here we are just trying to help prevent it from twisting/distorting under extreme conditions?

_________________
Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
_______________________________________
Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement

That engine isn't completed yet, but he did use a similair model for a 2JZ which worked ok afaik. Once again afaik this is the first 3S-GTE jobbie he used.


Arnout v/d Kamp. Owner of http://www.supras.nl, Holland's #1 Supra tuner/guru. Qualified AEM mapper, car nutter. He's bought the only Bee-R R334 GT-R Skyline outside Japan. Currently building his drag MK2 Supra with a single turbo supercharged 2JZ


I'm right on it boss. Afaik this is the only one made till now. I'll search that forum for more info on it and will post it in English on here, ok?

What I personally noticed on the pics above is that the US model is about as thick as a piece of paper (looking at the upper left corner)?

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René - Carlos Sainz 2433•5000
Turbocelica.nl | ST185 CS restoration and full rebuild

If it ain't broken.. it soon will be

_________________
"The gene pool could use a little chlorine..."

Didn't read the MR2OC topic

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René - Carlos Sainz 2433•5000
Turbocelica.nl | ST185 CS restoration and full rebuild

If it ain't broken.. it soon will be

Ian this looks very interesting, just to clear a few issues regarding the idea of using liners and the fact that they are stronger is not been the case on mine.I also have destroyed my engine yet again.
I removed the head only to find No 2 liner had a crack from top to bottom,i have not removed the piston yet so dont know whether the piston or rings are damaged yet. I have heard many discussions regarding different liners and there strength. I dont know whether ian will agreed but this issue with thin and thick wall blocks and maximum bore sizes, but i have only found that thick wall block with 86mm forged pistons will be the strongest solution so far ?????
I personally are going to try one more time for a reliable engine then im packing in with the gt4 totally as i can no longer afford to keep re-building.
Hutch
P.S. if anyone has a standard size block second hand etc etc i would be very interested. I refuse to pay 860 for a new one if i can help it.

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Please take your nails out of my dash..........501.1 Whp

Hmmm, IMO reliability with 500+ bhp on a car used for daily driving is a tall order. I'm hoping that building mine to survive 500 and running it at 400 will be OK. Seems that my 86mm CP's are giving me a C/R of 8.2 so with a new thick wall block it should stay in one piece ...fingers crossed Adrian was saying at the weekend that he's been running 86.25mm JE's at a C/R of 8.8 on a standard thick wall block since Rotorstock in May. He hasn't dyno'd it yet but it should be a conservative 600-650bhp.

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

Hutch i sorry to hear this, i am going to measure some more blocks, but i can find no noticable difference between a early block and a late block, i dont know how much of a rush your in m8 but if you can wait a few weeks i hopefully will get some answers back from the engine specialsts i sent the block to for some proper research into the cause and possible solutions to this issue.

good luck any way

I feel for Both Ian & Sonic.

The Dutch layout as you guys call it, is the one to use, been used for at least ten years i know off on 4 cylinder engines.

Pretty much every ford cosworth engine i have stripped over 500 bhp has used this setup, as well as a few other interesting improvements installed.

Have mentioned about such modifications to a few off you a while back!

Interesting info Jon, do you have any pics of the Cossie main bearing brace? What are the other 'interesting improvements'?

My supercharged Elise has a similar brace and I believe the cylinder head bolts right through the wet linered alloy block to the brace. It puts out twice the bhp of a standard Elise so I guess thats equivalent to a 510bhp 3S-GTE (2 x 255bhp)

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp