when i get a chance, will dig some pictures up..

Interesting improvements, well thats what you get to know when you work on a £25k engine...lol.


ps..

yes long thicker studs is a must, using the upper deck of the cylinder barrel is not a good idea..

Sorry for being a pain...

Engine builds cost loads we all agree, i don't know how many you all have blown up each, but surely its greater than a cost of 503 block, or, some other custom made unit to replace the stock unit….in the long run it would save money..

Jon, I've always assumed getting a block custom made would be fearsomely expensive so never considered it to be a serious option

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

The 503, although an "endurance" block was only meant to do a few thousand miles between builds. Not highly ecconomical imho.

I believe people should stick to more sensible power levels and tune their cars for response rather than outright big numbers. Make the car faster in other departments other than gurt huge horsepower.

Its a nice notion, but I dont think even with a lottery win behind me I could ever justify the finances needed to go chasing Norris Designs Evo and the likes.

_________________
02 Mini Cooper Race Car
94 ST205 Import
92 ST185 Carlos Sainz
www.mcnab-racing.co.uk

how come the japs are running a 710 supra ???? on a 3sgte. ?
hutch

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Please take your nails out of my dash..........501.1 Whp

Hutch, dont take offence to what I'm saying, its the simply the way I see things. I dont see the point in chasing big numbers out 2.0 engines as it simply makes it a case of when, not if, will your engine throw in the towel.

As for how are the japs doing it. I dont know. But who actually knows how long between rebuilds Top Secrets 3SGTE engined Supra lasted? Or how long the JGTC Supra's lasted between rebuilds?

What I can tell you, is that on those applications, they had damn sight better heat management than is available on our cars and MR2's. Maybe its block flex, maybe its the bore weakness between 2 and 3, maybe its localised gas pockets, in any case, its a damn sight easier for a crack to propagate the hotter the metal.

my uneducated 2p for what it is worth is that it is the 4WD that is causing all the problems.

We see huge power coming from 'special' MR2's and Supra's both using the 3sgte they don't seem to have the same issues (or at least they are not being openly discussed) as we do? My guess is that the MR2's and Supra's just don't place the additional stresses on the block.

Personally I think that the 4WD is causing unprecedented stresses on the design of the block and it just can't cope. After all the GT4 was never designed to have massive HP it was designed to be quick and nimble round rally courses. And whilst the interneals are over engineered and can withstand a degree of abuse, everything has it's breaking point and think Ian and Hutch and the other 550+ bhp guys are starting to find where that is.

On a final note, we all splash out to upgrade the internals, why don't we consider upgrading the block?

_________________
Loosey
Loosey@gt4dc.co.uk
Storm Blue JDM ST205
Super White JDM ST205
http://www.gtfours.co.uk

Some people are like a Slinky .. Not really good for anything, but they make you smile when you shove them down the stairs!

Well for how long....? total running time hrs, days weeks..?

Loads induced from 4 wheel drive transmission system will certainly cause problems, running heavily tuned engines, that requiring much greater stability, small amounts of distortion will most defiantly cause catastrophic end results, but i don't think its the total contributor to the sort of problems that have been occurring, the cracking of the cylinder bores points one direction, the failure of the engine block is another.

The standard 3sgte block was designed to run road power, the mere nature of the block design, the thickness of material used, after all its lightweight cast iron , all points one way, Its against serious power hungry modders..

The 503 block, needed rebuilding often, I thought this was down to using almost skirt less piston with single ring setup type….., well maybe, ,..,.,, i don't know much about jap stuff, did the 503 use liners, or was it one piece block affair..?

if i was to have an engine block made, it would be wet liner, for ease of rebuild in the near distance future.

anyone heard anymore on this from smithy?

_________________
Pete
ST185
Basingstoke

I believe he has had a preliminary report at least but haven't heard what the final verdict was. If I hear anything I'll let you know.

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

got this reply back from smithy over on the ec forum

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Pete
ST185
Basingstoke

Well I think we can draw some conclusions from that! There is only so much you can do to 'modify the block' but IMO I don't think thats the whole solution.

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp

The girdle shown on page 1 of this thread is availble from www.twosrus.com

Price is $500 for the girdle

_________________
Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
_______________________________________
Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement

dutch one dutch one ..

To the one above, not quite the same.. a little thin compared to some.

why not buy an evo 7 engine < they have one as standard...



more important is how the block is reinforced, the 185 - 205 block does not have the webbing required to be reliable. fullstop

furthermore the engine mount bracket DO no share loads across, a typical area of improvement.

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Black UK 96 205 shed with heater full on telemetry.

project six million dollar 185, faster, stronger, lighter than before.

For comparison purposes this is the set up on my Elise engine









Supercharged VHPD engine
Numerous engine parts are machined, strengthened or replaced. These include a new set of strengthened Turbo Technics pistons, new forged connecting rods, a cast aluminium ladder frame to increase crankcase rigidity and high tensile through bolts. I believe it is possible to convert the Ford Cossie YB block to 'through bolt' configuration?
Maximum power: 260 bhp @ 7000 rpm
Maximum Torque: 203 lb ft @ 6000 rpm
Better power to weight ratio than a Ferrari 355 and 0-60 in 4.3secs

_________________
Don
GT4DC Chairman
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205WRC JDM 269bhp @ 0.9bar
1994 Toyota Celica GT-Four Special GT 590bhp @ 1.8bar
1989 Van Diemen RF88/89 Formula Ford 1600
2008 Nissan Patrol GU 3.0L ZD30DDTi 154bhp