Very nice indeed!
Yamaha - well done.

117% - fantastic result

_________________
"To raven, to do a crap, to sward a pinkie - just that are the needs of a real man"

(E.M.Remark, "Three camrades")

How did you get this figure?

Please educate me!

_________________
Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
_______________________________________
Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement

Flowbench measurements.
+ analysis after getting logs.
If shortly.

BTW - the stock turbo CT26C2 contrary to all myths that it weakens after >6000 rpm is able to make 1.2 with 60% of wastegate closure at 8.5K rpm!
Easily!

_________________
"To raven, to do a crap, to sward a pinkie - just that are the needs of a real man"

(E.M.Remark, "Three camrades")

I think the issue with the CT at high rpm is the highly restrictive hotside choking VE
Unfortunately many have proved it's ability to make lots of boost in the form of boost creep

Interesting info on the head though. I haven't reverse engineered VE curves from my datalogging yet but they do suggest that even with the turbo technics turbo it's tailing off over about 6k

Q: please confirm ct26c2 = stock st205 turbocharger....and where did you source that info... please ?

_________________
ST165 turbo 4WD
ST185 GT-FOUR RC Carlos Sainz Limited Edition 825•5000
ST185 turbo 4WD Carlos Sainz Limited Edition 2541•5000

Hmm,
I woudl like more info on what exactly you stuck on teh flow bench m8.
Just head?
Head with cams & Valves?
head, cams, valves, inlet manifold, TVIS, Throttle body?
You get my drift.
ST185 engines seriously start to run out of flow at the top end of the RPM range, Identifying where the restriction is at and sorting the problem is my aim. If you are saying that the head alone is not the restriction - that makes perfect sense

_________________
JP
GT4DC Treasurer

Grey St185 RC
Silver BMW E46 M3
Multicolour yawn Honda VFR400
Silver Honda Civic Type-R

In order:

VE for NA Eng-s = relation between quantity of actual income charge to the potential income charge, which could fill the cylinder + CC at definite T & P of environment

VE for TC Eng-s = relation between quantity of actual income charge to the potential income charge, which could fill the cylinder + CC at T & P before TB

So, if to know the T&P before TB + if to measure the charge we can get the VE (theoretical charge could be easily counted).
After run & analyzing the logs the VE was calculated by the computer as 117%..
Previously the test of the head was done with flowbench.
It was head with all stuff from the inlet ports.
The test result is 116.7%

So, Diceman, this VE was extracted by real run

Cyclical consumption is 1450 grams/cycle/5500
Mass consumption is 1200 kg/6500

Eng = 135K kilos
Turbo = stock, 135K kilos

keeps >1 bar at 8500,
cams (In,Ex - are equal) = 8.7mm lift, 289/0.2 mm; 281/0.38 mm; 231/1.0 mm

Pipercross AF, FMIC (nothing special), exhaust is ordinary - not stock, but nothing special, fuelpump from US Supra, 690cc Siemens high impedance injectors (85% duty at 8250).
All other stuff is stock, fuel is 95.
ECU = "Janvar" J5LS program (soviet ECU from old Lada's)
Also many smalls - sensors bla-bla to make new ECU work.

Temp logs - from 9C to 19C maximum.

The answers on the other questions:
- *bleep* perfomance of stock car is because of ECU & cams, the "iron component" inside 205 is brilliant
- ct26c2 = stock turbocharger from st205
- the source of this info is this car:
http://www.interform.ru/st/page_01.htm
(if to look all pages, you'll see all the story wich led to the final figures)
- yes, hot part is restrictive, but it's enough to make 1 bar at cold at 2 liters & 8500 revs
- again: *bleep* perfomance of stock car is because of ECU & cams, the "iron component" inside 205 is brilliant, >1 bar at 8500 while 60% of WG closed

That is the pressure & spoolup at target wastegate duty 50%
http://photofile.ru/photo/maxi--rpd--/2 ... 367390.jpg
(if you'll change last digit, rest logs could be viewed)

Other logs could be listed.

P.S. - you can be sceptic a lot, it's your buisiness, but car rides with mentioned above results ))
P.S1: CR is still 8.5, of course it will be reduced avoiding the damage!

PPPPPPPPSSSSSSS:
the task is not to make an oda to this project, the task is to say, that yamaha head for st205 is very seductive & nice! That's why it goes so nicely & can work with broad cams.

_________________
"To raven, to do a crap, to sward a pinkie - just that are the needs of a real man"

(E.M.Remark, "Three camrades")

Aha,
I see - Steve & I were looking at doing similar. Apologies I thought you had a ST185!

_________________
JP
GT4DC Treasurer

Grey St185 RC
Silver BMW E46 M3
Multicolour yawn Honda VFR400
Silver Honda Civic Type-R

Do you have VE or flow charts available?

I would quite like to reverse engineer VE one day. I probably have enough maps to get data for most basic configurations and I have data for mine with the TT hybrid with less restrictive hotside

Even with the TT hybrid which really opens the top end up VE is still dropping above about 6krpm and I'm injecting progressivly less fuel as revs rise to achieve the same AFR
So there is a definite mechanical restriction still. I suspect cams and cam timing will make a quantum leap again

Steve,

I wrote: perfomance of stock car is because of ECU & cams

That's why your result with hybrid is not of the top.

_________________
"To raven, to do a crap, to sward a pinkie - just that are the needs of a real man"

(E.M.Remark, "Three camrades")

Agreed completely 110%. Well, apart from the stock ECU bit as that doesn't effect the VE and it's also not something I'm constrained by
I can clearly see that there's a VE issue at high rpm as I'm removing injector duty over 6k rpm to maintain constant AFR

What I would like to achieve
There's a baseline for the head now
I have a baseline for stock head + stock cams + TT hybrid
In the fulness of time I might end up with figures for TT hybrid, stock head + aftermarket cams
Then possibly the results of gasflow/portmatching inlet and exhaust manifolds
IF it all worked out it might provide an area which is going to reap the most returns for your work.
I rather suspect that the stock turbo and the stock cams/cam timing setup will be the two biggest issues
I know with the TT hybrid there's still a restriction somewhere. What I really ought to do is install an exhaust manifold pressure sensor to see if the hybrid is still the major restriction or if it's elsewhere....

Top Job Prochorus familiaris, maybe now the doubters will stop doubting.. :wink and subsequently update there views and information, Yamaha have great insight into cy head design, they started way before Toyota even thought about 3s engines.



Best of all



If i could give you karma you would have it everyday .

185 engine is just as caperable as a 205 fitting with like for like hardware.

I hope you don't mind me posting this up, nice job.btw



nothing like over driving a fuel pump a little , worked for me on the ratter.

Hmm...

I thought somebody understood me...
The idea #2 (1st is dedicated to brillaint design of 3S-GTE head) is very simple - with 3-4K USD you can reach mush more, than flooshing your money just to make nothing..

Ok, no matter

_________________
"To raven, to do a crap, to sward a pinkie - just that are the needs of a real man"

(E.M.Remark, "Three camrades")

umm,have you seen many heads, Yamaha 3sgte head is good , no means amazing, take a look at a yb cy head, they produce much more power,better port angle bigger valves, flow more in stock trim .

when i mapped the rat185, tve table showed good ramp to a table top, not as good as others. its not just the head alone, its the sum of all parts that make for a good end result.

_________________
Black UK 96 205 shed with heater full on telemetry.

project six million dollar 185, faster, stronger, lighter than before.