Hello everybody,

I am as well planing or at least thinking about upgrading again my fuel supply.

I have SARD 800CC side feed low impendance injectors, a Sard fuel regulator, and a Sard 265l/H fuel pump.

Tufy who has got as well a GT35R with 850cc injectors told me that he will have to upgrade to HKS 1000cc top feed injectors as the 850's ran out of juice....

So should i do change as well? Wolkatz is offering a high power fuel supply kit but Wolfkatz seems as well to be a bit pricey or?

any help is welcome

cheers Joerg

Seems that an 800cc injector is good for ~500hp.

If your goal is more than that then I would've thought injectors + other stuff would also be needed?

_________________
Kris
95 ST205 - slept for 10 years, now waking up...
Avensis
http://www.gtfours.co.uk
_______________________________________
Turbocharging - the replacement for displacement

This is the product i was thinking about:

http://www.wolfkatz.com/proddetail.php? ... HHPMR2FUEL

My goal is in between 500-600 hp.

On the Wolfkatz site is as well mentioned that the fuel lines are good to supply 880cc injectors but not more.

Well what could i do? should i first stick with the 800cc ones and look how far i get or should i exchange my fuelrail to a top feed one with 100cc injectors?

cheers Joerg

+ 1 to that.
I have 850's sitting here ready to go in when I need them.
For 1000cc's you are looking at a new rail, new lines, high flow filter, pos a new pump you might even end up having to have a swirl pot, an extra tank & an uplifter solution.

If I were you I would see how far you get on 800's then when & if you out grow them buy them then, dont just buy them & slap them in because you might need them at some stage cus you might never get there & the problems you would get by running 1000's without really needing them couls cause you more problems in the long run

Just my 2p's

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ST205 WRC #0002249

thank you krude for your 2p worth 2 pounds

Well iguess you are right. I am just thinking bout all that, because tufy is now acing the same problems i may get with to small injectors.

If i would at some stage go for 1000cc injectors what would i need to replace?

1) My fuellines i guess.
2) the fuelrail
3) would the Sard fuel regulator be good enough?
4) would the 265 l/h fuel pump be good enough to support the new 1000cc injectors?

cheers Joerg

I'd suck it and see what the 800s achieve

My guess would be that the the build cost of a 500+ HP engine will be so large that another thousand to build a decent fuel system will be insignificant

I would not use that Wolfkatz kit for fuel supply though. It should be cheaper to go buy a motorsport Bosch external pump setup as you'll see on most serios rally cars.

My plan, should I ever get around to it, is ti use the stock (in your case Walboro high power) pump as a lift pump from the tank into a swirl pot.
Since this is low pressure I expect even the stock pump to cope fine for my needs although you will be approaching the limit with 4x1000 cc injectors as they will want 240l/hour and the pump will supply 265
Following the swirl pot will be a proper external type pump feeding pressurized fuel for the rail

I think the stock rail has been found to start having issues with maxed 800cc or above injectors. Hoever, you could simply have it re-configured to a twin feed centre return to avoid this

In this case it seems common to have two high flow fuel pumps (one for each end of the rail) and a single centre return. This not only guarantees adequate fuel supply under all conditions but also means that should a fuel pump fail you still have enough fuel to prevent engine failure

Good info Steve,

thank you.

I am not familiar to these tech specs.... Do we have a OEM swirlpot or do i have to buy one ...? Which one would be a good solution.

I was recommended to take an additional good external bosch fuel pump to keep the pressure up. Overkill? Would they work in line? or would the strong bosch fuelpump run dry as the Sard only can provide 265l/h?

cheers Joerg

The other option is eight 540s, if your ecu can cpe with that it might make for a more efficient running engine at the lower engine speeds and so on

_________________
'92 GT-Four RC - Project Rufus - something of a mover.
'05 Audi A3 3.2 V6 Quattro S Line - not bad for a daily.

Hi Joerg,

Regards the swirl pot you will need to source an external one. I'm sure such things are availale locally to you but if not rallynuts, demon tweaks or a whole raft of UK motor sport companies will help you out.

Fuel swirl pots are an absolute necessity in real performance track cars or rally cars so they are not hard to find

To be honest, if you are really going to be needing 4x1000cc injectors then I doubt the Sard 265l in tank pump will suffice. It will be close to it's flow limit and I would be uncomfortable with it

As I said before, 4x1000cc injectors will flow 4l/min or a maximum of 240l/hr. This would be about 90% of the Sard pump capacity and would worry me. Especially if I had built an engine which needed such a fuel supply as a shortfall in fuel capacity is most likely to result in a very large bang.
In reality, given that you are not likely to really run the injectors at 100% it would probably work but there's not much room for manoeuver
External bosch pump - absolutely. I think the common motorsport on goes under the name of an 030 pump? Again, anyone used to building or supplying parts for high performance vehicles will know exactly what you want as it's an indusrty standard sort of setup

Mook has an interesting point. Running two banks of injectors is an alternative to running huge main injectors and is very common in the world of Ford Cosworth tuning.
The problem with a set of 1000+ fire hydrant injectors is that at tickover it's hard to get a small enough amount of fuel into the engine.
When you run two smaller banks only one of them is used at low rpm giving you much better control over small fuel requirements
Then, as your GT35r starts to spool the second set comes online to give huge fuel potential
However, running such a setp requires a fully programmable ECU like MoTeC, Autronic, Haltech and is not possible with the PFC you have fitted right now

I'll see if I can dig out a few pictures of rally car boots. I'm certain I have one from Rally Day last year of the rear end of a ford escort which had a very typical fuel supply setup

Thank you. I would apreciate to see those pics.

change the ECU? No i really don't think that would be wise at the moment (budget is getting smaller). And i just bought the datalogit kit It would mean that i need a new ECU, fitment, new leads and tuning again.

Joerg

Dagnabbit,

I can't find the photos I had

However, a quick perusal of the web found these

Swirl pot FAQ (Ignore the spurious advert rubbish )

And, courtesy of Adrian/Fensport, the setup on thier new celica


More pics @ http://www.fensport.co.uk/fensportcarsmain.htm

Also, I forgot that Facet is a major supplier of motorsport fuel components